10/8/2011: Sparrow's Flight

[Kitsuki Yuushahime]

Love the suggestion Satoru. I could see the Unicorn and Mantis doing something similar too, as they are both meant to be very compassionate Clans.

[Mirumoto Shigekazu]

I only do not understand Infamy requirement. Taint requirement I could understand but Infamy? Also I do not understand glory loss. No glory gain is enough loss for me. Plus boost of honor should be considered.

But we should remember we can only beg our wishes has some impact on the game - it is rather rare occasion than rule than roleplay incluences the game. So I would not be shocked if action to help refugees would not occur.

[Shosuro Aroru]

...Agreed, a "discreet" mission is more likely to have an infamy minimum than a max. I keep looking at Kyuden Agasha and the new mission up there. Looks like more Gaijin are attacking the Empire. I'm kind of hoping this produces another mission that drops Ships Captain.

[Kitsuki Yuushahime]

I think it makes sense myself. A "bad guy" (someone with lots of infamy) isn't the type to want to compassionately help refugees secretly. Even if discreet may mean steathily - which I do not believe it necessarily does. I imagine more "effective use of allies, favors and one's courtier abilities". That may just be me though ^^

[Tamori Manji]

I agree with Satoru on this one. Helping the Heimin and Burakumin, albeit noble and the right thing to do (which could mean an honor boost), would be much like planting rice for a samurai, not exactly glorious. One would have to "abandon his/her duties" to their sworn lieges to focus on that, I can't imagine many of the samurai in the Great Clans willingly joining this effort while the war is still raging. Manji does it because, as I've said in more than one place, that is his duty as a messenger of Inari and his duty to Inari and the Empire comes before his duty to the Emperor. He's a hengeyoukai too, so pissing off the Celestial Order is in his job description

I also must note that, if an action appears in the Sparrow, another one should also appear in the Tortoise, since they are participating of the same effort in their own way.

The Mantis is helping by transporting some of the people from the areas they are attacking to safer places, albeit in a very non-official, under the tables, way since they are directly participating in the war.

I don't think any of the other Great Clans, despite maybe the Dragon (due to their nature and the geography of their homeland), could afford to get involved in this effort though. Their lands are either easy to access or are already being attacked. Still, I would appreciate if there were other Minor Clan representatives, that are neutral in this conflict, willing to receive my messengers.

[Suzume Satoru]

The infamy maximum in my mind would echo what Yuushahime stated.

And in this case, discreet would not mean stealthily, but rather through unorthodox and irregular channels- ie, though the use of unaffiliated merchants, or simply having some of your lesser known retainers deliver goods incognito or in disguise. That is where the glory loss would come in, from associating with merchants or doing such an action in disguise/incognito. And also, this is why the second action would be honor neutral. Yes, its for a good cause, but you're also doing it through slightly shady means.

Though thinking about it, no infamy whatever on the second action makes sense, since it is discreet. As for the first action, the Sparrow would turn away assistance from a neutral party if said party had a bad enough reputation that the assistance may bring more trouble than its worth.


At anyrate, I do not expect anything of the sort to happen- this is all just theory craft and mind exercises. And fun.

Addendum- In reference to what Manji posted above- this is why I would not make either action add glory.

[Tamori Manji]

It would be very nice if it happened though ;D

EDIT: And the more neutral Clans involved in this, the better. That way we could create a non-official network of information, transport and support that could give the common people some security during the war. Which, in turn, could mean a huge pay off for the Empire later. But, even if it doesn't become an in game action, I'm already happy enough to RP it

[Suzume Satoru]

I would like to state, -for a third time- , in no uncertain terms, that I do not expect any of this to happen in game, nor do I expect anything I do here to be represented in game (but will be pleasantly surprised if it does). This was merely just theory crafting and mental exercises using the format of the game.

[Mirumoto Shigekazu]

"Discreet would not mean stealthily, but rather through unorthodox and irregular channels- ie, though the use of unaffiliated merchants, or simply having some of your lesser known retainers deliver goods incognito or in disguise."

Sound very infamous for me. Like smuggling.

And why all of you assume that infamous guy is autmatically dishonorable? Like those mafiosos who smuggled whisky in the time of prohibition and in the same time donated large sum of money to orphans or raised a fund for local hospital.

At margin: I am the most infamous Dragon and at the same time have 7,500 honor points.

[Suzume Satoru]

Re Shigekazu:

That is an interesting thing about this facebook game- you can be glorious, honorable, and infamous- whereas in the actual TT game, you cannot do that. Typically, in the TT game, actions that would gain you infamy would also likely drop your honor.

The concepts as they apply to L5R seem to be mutually exclusive. Especially glory and infamy, as in l5r they are diametrically opposed on the same scale- ie, you go negative in glory and you start gaining infamy.

This all leads me to another question- are there infamy reducing actions in this game? The hypothetical action here could possibly qualify as one.

[Mirumoto Shigekazu]

Yes, there is a mission that reduces Infamy. Deep in the Dragon lands is a temple where you can atone for past deeds. Big lockout time, big glory loss and requires Dragon Ally.

Here we have 4 Scales: Shame-Glory, Dishonor-Honor, 0-Infamy, 0-Taint. So you can be glorious courtier performing duties of karo and in the same infamous smuggler of opium. And I like it this way; this infamy-glory scale is one of the original L5R things I do not understand.

What is TT?

[Suzume Satoru]

TT: Table Top game, as in the Table Top RPG game, and not the card game.

At anyrate, my point about the Sparrow not particularly wanting the help of people with particularly high infamy still stands. There is a perception that people who are infamous tend to bring trouble in their wake.

[Ikoma Kibo]

After speaking to a trusted ally, I would also suggest that perhaps the Suzume may serve as a mediator when one is needed. And I am certain one will be.

[Kitsuki Yuushahime]

Oct 10, 2011 9:53:37 GMT -5 Tamori Manji said:

I agree with Satoru on this one. Helping the Heimin and Burakumin, albeit noble and the right thing to do (which could mean an honor boost), would be much like planting rice for a samurai, not exactly glorious. One would have to "abandon his/her duties" to their sworn lieges to focus on that, I can't imagine many of the samurai in the Great Clans willingly joining this effort while the war is still raging. Manji does it because, as I've said in more than one place, that is his duty as a messenger of Inari and his duty to Inari and the Empire comes before his duty to the Emperor. He's a hengeyoukai too, so pissing off the Celestial Order is in his job description

I also must note that, if an action appears in the Sparrow, another one should also appear in the Tortoise, since they are participating of the same effort in their own way.

The Mantis is helping by transporting some of the people from the areas they are attacking to safer places, albeit in a very non-official, under the tables, way since they are directly participating in the war.

I don't think any of the other Great Clans, despite maybe the Dragon (due to their nature and the geography of their homeland), could afford to get involved in this effort though. Their lands are either easy to access or are already being attacked. Still, I would appreciate if there were other Minor Clan representatives, that are neutral in this conflict, willing to receive my messengers.

I agree and disagree Manji. Sometimes following compassion is more important to samurai than following their Lord. It led to a certain keeper of air or some such I recall.

Also, I imagine some lesser daimyo and even some major lords would prefer to help with refugee relief efforts than directly fighting in the war. Hime would be one of them. I believe there could well be other daimyo though - such as Kasumi. It would be a way of not directly helping Toturi or Hantei, even though your Clan may be sworn to them while you are not, while still doing something that others cannot disagree with or try and duel you over.

No samurai lord wants a war to end and find their lands devoid of peasants to feed their samurai. Not even the Scorpion!

[Bayushi Hisa]

The scorpion just hope they do not get exiled over this war. Two tours to the burning sands was enough.