Kitsuki Zatoichi
Dragon Clan
* Blind * Justicar * Enlightened * Dragon Ambassador to Crane Clan
Posts: 13
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Post by Kitsuki Zatoichi on Aug 26, 2011 9:53:53 GMT -5
Hey folks! Somebody could tell me how can i get promoted to taisa status? I already have the chui position. And i am also looking for the "Darling of the Court" position and "Soul of Battle" status. Thanks!
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Kitsuki Yuushahime
Dragon Clan
This person sometimes posts things that are tl;dr
Courtier Magistrate Ambassador Daimyo
Posts: 1,140
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Post by Kitsuki Yuushahime on Aug 26, 2011 10:35:15 GMT -5
Hi fellow Kitsuki! Yay! I love how many Kitsuki there are! Please consider joining the Toturi side!
Anyhow, Taisa is presently unavailable as it was gained at the battle of mountain watch keep. It may become available again through an action connected with this current civil war.
Soul of battle was much the same.
Darling of the court... I have it but I honestly cannot remember how one acquires it. I think it was through mastering one of the random events, possibly entertaining a regional daimyo's guests?
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Kitsuki Zatoichi
Dragon Clan
* Blind * Justicar * Enlightened * Dragon Ambassador to Crane Clan
Posts: 13
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Post by Kitsuki Zatoichi on Aug 26, 2011 14:13:42 GMT -5
Thanks for your help Kitsuki-Sama! Your support to Toturi side is a considerable reason, and i considered to join Kaneka side because our daimyo authority. But i'm loyal at the rightful Hantei, and i will fight with courage at his side in this war. Good luck to us both.
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Kitsuki Yuushahime
Dragon Clan
This person sometimes posts things that are tl;dr
Courtier Magistrate Ambassador Daimyo
Posts: 1,140
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Post by Kitsuki Yuushahime on Aug 27, 2011 23:05:39 GMT -5
No worries Zatoichi-san. You are welcome to follow your heart on this matter. It is just a shame that you would support a man who allows the Empire to crumble Have you added me to your dynasty by the way?
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Kakita Hiroshi
Crane Clan
* Duelist * Courtier * Magistrate * Warrior Poet *
Posts: 285
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Post by Kakita Hiroshi on Aug 29, 2011 9:29:10 GMT -5
What does appear to be difficult is Focus. All recent iaijutsu challenges require it, and it seems to be an incredibly difficult drop to find. I've spent time with the Brotherhood and got a grand total of two! Go and patrol the Three Sides River province, my dear friend. Then use Pirate Sightings to challenge the pirate leader to a duel. It drops Focus (although not very often too ).
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Aug 29, 2011 11:07:00 GMT -5
No worries Zatoichi-san. You are welcome to follow your heart on this matter. It is just a shame that you would support a man who allows the Empire to crumble Have you added me to your dynasty by the way? Yuushahime-san, I must ask you, who again is attacking the Imperial Capital? I think I just forgot
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Post by Akodo Tsanuri on Aug 29, 2011 11:39:27 GMT -5
we are. to place the rightful Emperor on his throne
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Aug 29, 2011 12:09:39 GMT -5
we are. to place the rightful Emperor on his throne Rightful... yes. Because now bastardship comes with a prize. Of course, this wouldn't be the first time a bastard became king to satisfy the personal ambitions of powerful political groups more worried about themselves than the good of their Nation And who again spread the rumors about Hantei trying to assassinate the Shogun? Last time someone said the Yobanjin and I thought it was very funny. I can always use a good laugh. ;D
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Post by Akodo Tsanuri on Aug 29, 2011 17:11:36 GMT -5
sometimes drastic actions must be taken for the sake of the Empire. it won't be the first time about the rumor: it isn;t important who spread it but if it is true or not
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Aug 30, 2011 7:22:02 GMT -5
sometimes drastic actions must be taken for the sake of the Empire. it won't be the first time about the rumor: it isn;t important who spread it but if it is true or not Akodo-san, I must confess I find your understanding of Bushido, especially Chugo and Meyo, very strange if you don't question where the slander about your lawful liege comes from. And I simply can't see how so many people can state that a civil war is meant for the good of the Empire when, in fact, all it does is weaken us for no reason at all. Or do you think that unproven gossip about our Emperor is enough for a betrayal? Because, as I see it, our loyalty to the Empire and to the Emperor comes way before our loyalty to our families and Clans. So, please, help me understand which secret truth you have been exposed to because it eludes me. As does the validity of the arguments that support the claim that Akodo Kaneka has on the throne. Otherwise, please, don't try to sugarcoat the meaning of a knife in the back
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Kitsuki Yuushahime
Dragon Clan
This person sometimes posts things that are tl;dr
Courtier Magistrate Ambassador Daimyo
Posts: 1,140
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Post by Kitsuki Yuushahime on Aug 30, 2011 8:02:08 GMT -5
"Yuushahime-san, I must ask you, who again is attacking the Imperial Capital? I think I just forgot "
Please check your memory then sama. You will find it is besieged by the noble forces who wish to cut our the lazy disease that is wasting away our Empire. Walls can be rebuilt. The Empire, if allowed to decline, will never be rebuilt as easily. Are all the Kitsune so prone to focussing on one city and missing the greater picture? You miss the wood for the trees...
As for the slander against Hantei - he has not publicly rebuked any claims. His lack of action is implied consent that these events took place. I would reverse this line of thinking if he would reverse his arrogant silence. Of course you may argue he is entitled to that silence and is innocent due to his position... for this I will remind you that the Seppun themselves did away with one Emperor due to damage he was causing. In this case the damage is not directly being caused but is nonetheless happening due to inaction. Or would you argue that it is normal for the yobanjin to attack and the Empire to react so slowly? For bloodspeakers to kidnap and kill? For tainted infiltrators to wall through our courts as if it were a childish game of hide and seek?
No, the Empire has become dangerously lax and hedonistic. It is on the precipice of forgetting its ways and giving into corruption and vice. These things have always existed but have been beaten back by capable and swift rule. Hantei seems incapable of this. You will argue that following one's lord is the core of bushido but I must highlight that when one ceases to act as ones lord then they are no longer their lord. If the Kitsune daimyo were to move to a monastery indefinately you would elect another or one would naturally rise to take over the position. Naturally this is the most glorious and most important position but the principle is no different.
As I have always said though, the heavens will decide this one. Both had claims to the throne. Whether taking back a claim and then reclaiming that is valid or not is really not for us to decide - the rules apply different to claims of Emperor-hood than they do to normal samurai titles.
There is more behind this civil war than unproven rumours and that greater truth escapes you.
Edit note: This is meant to be a post for debate. No offense is meant. I think it can be assumed that Manji was aspiring for this. If it is undesired I am happy for this post to be deleted of course. I would ask where one can have this debate otherwise though - our characters could not have it for their sides would demand they fight on sight, rather than talk...
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Aug 30, 2011 8:58:42 GMT -5
Please check your memory then sama. You will find it is besieged by the noble forces who wish to cut our the lazy disease that is wasting away our Empire. Walls can be rebuilt. The Empire, if allowed to decline, will never be rebuilt as easily. Are all the Kitsune so prone to focussing on one city and missing the greater picture? You miss the wood for the trees... Am I? Sure, a city can be rebuilt but can the dead be brought back to life? (no, I don't want to hear what the Spiders have to say about this ) Can the sacked granaries be filled again before famine spreads throughout the Empire? Can all the broken families of the common people, subjected to the will of this or that Lord, be restored? Can the symbol of the Emperor's authority, the Capital city, be preserved after such an attack? No Yuushahime-sama, they can't. Rebuilding a city is the least of my concerns. And again people talk about Toturi Naseru-sama as if he was Fu Leng himself. You yourself just said that there was no proof, only silence. Should you not, as the Kitsuki daimyo, have investigated the matter personally before choosing a side? Should the Emperor not have our trust and allegiance? If we are to insurrect every time we don't agree with something the Emperor does, instead of trying to understand his reasons or counsel him towards a wiser path, where will that take us? If this matter was so clear as you seem to believe, there would be proof and the Empire would not be divided in its allegiance. Or would you argue that it is normal for the yobanjin to attack and the Empire to react so slowly? For bloodspeakers to kidnap and kill? For tainted infiltrators to wall through our courts as if it were a childish game of hide and seek? I would not and that is why me, alongside a few others, believe that the true threat to the Empire is still hidden in the shadows, playing us against one another and laughing while our people wither. Still, has Akodo Kaneka-sama not gone to fight against the Yobanjin? And wasn't he appointed by the Emperor to do exactly that? I fail to see why everyone recognizes the immediate hero in that situation but everyone seems to forget its commander. We should be allied against these threats, not fighting over who should stay on the throne, especially not when Akodo Kaneka-sama is not even the legitimate son of Toturi Kaede-sama. Please, enlighten me about how waging a civil war will solve the matters your appointed better than allying ourselves against them. An Emperor cannot rule his realm alone. You suppose and imagine a lot of things. The Emperor has not abandoned his Empire, he has not relinquished his claim nor has he retreated to a monastery. You always talk about how things "seem this way" or "should be that way" or think in terms of "if" but you don't deal with the present problems. I only ask that you employ the famous Kitsuki method which makes your family so respected. I have only one thing to ask from the supporters of Akodo Kaneka-sama, which you chose to represent, that we drop the needless hostilities and focus on what really matters. We cannot fight threats against the Empire while at each other's throats. And, if no one else will do it, I assure you that the Mantis will accept this responsibility. But, if you still insist that waging a civil war and dethroning the Emperor, while making the whole Empire suffer, is more important that investigating and opposing what truly ails our people, I respectfully withdraw my arguments, for there is no use in arguing if we aren't both willing to reach a compromise. EDIT: Toturi Naseru, not Akodo Naseru. Despite being the son of an Akodo, he, as the rightful heir, inherited the name of the dynasty. So many names and family names that it gets confusing sometimes
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Kitsuki Yuushahime
Dragon Clan
This person sometimes posts things that are tl;dr
Courtier Magistrate Ambassador Daimyo
Posts: 1,140
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Post by Kitsuki Yuushahime on Aug 30, 2011 9:31:52 GMT -5
You make it sound like the fate of the empire is tied to the fate of the capital. That is a gross exaggeration.
As for an investigation, yes I did launch one personally. I had much help too. Our efforts are still ongoing and the matter is inconclusive as yet. There is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest it is very possible that Hantei was behind it and I just find it amusing... Hantei should have just asked for the man's head.
Also, study the Kitsuki method. No man's word, no matter who, should be taken for face value. Trust does not come into it.
As for insurrecting and doing that over anything so easily... hardly. The number of times he acted slowly or refused to act built up to create a horde of reasons to be dubious of his reign and his advisors. He was not open to counselling. I would immediately change my mind if you could prove he was open to it. The Spider matter does not apply. It was common sense to all to have their so called Clan ambassadors righteously eradicated. If he did not even have that common sense I imagine you would already be in Toturi's army.
We Kitsuki accept there are two sides to every case. The fact the Empire IS split proves that there was a severe lack of confidence in Hantei and much faith in Toturi. Any smart man would have been quick to recognise this, try to reverse it or eliminate the problem. I would be happy to be ruled by a baffoon if he allowed his advisors to carry out his duties. However, a man that is a fool, acts so slowly or not at all and thereby damages his Empire, who doesn't listen to advice and is happy to watch his subjects be kidnapped, abused and attacked by evil diseases without giving any orders... that is a merely a flawed man, not an Emperor or Lord.
I do however agree with you that the true threat is hidden. Hantei's stagnation is hardly a disease. It is just a poor immune system allowing the disease to spread.
As for legitimacy... that has no bearing. A ronin who has his way with a peasant still has a samurai child. The same is true of Emperors. Their offspring are not to be discarded merely because they did not come from a rightfully recognised marriage. Perhaps the Kitsune do things differently and never take mistresses? The previous Emperor was arguably flawed though to have done so but certainly his action, as an Emperor, must be accepted. He knew the consequences of producing a child with a geisha. Thus his actions were subconsciously intended. His illegitimate children still hold a claim to his position under his line.
Applying ourselves against them, as you wisely suggest, would likely solve these problems. It is your foolish Hantei who does not wish to do this. Please beg him to reconsider. When Toturi gains power he will turn this Empire to face its true foes and they shall be vanquished and the disease cured. We will then be instructed so as to immunise ourselves as much as possible. The choices are accepting the decline and corruption of the Empire or a long term hope that an Emperor willing to do his job properly and actively will in turn rebuild and then improve the Empire. Of course he cannot rule alone as you say, but Toturi actually listens to his advisors...
So this civil war will solve this problems but it will take time. How does doing nothing and trying to feebly and ineffectively prod a useless Emperor to do them and failing miserably achieve those aims?
You also suppose and imagine a lot. You seem to think highly of Hantei when he has his own dubious past. You argue that Kaneka's achievements should only bring glory to Hantei as that was his lord. That is not how glory works. One wins it individually. Certainly Hantei should be praised for... eventually allowing the Shogun to move. However, his own lack of action and the lack of action of his champion is deplorable.
I am idealistic and would like things to be a certain way. At least I dare to dream. You would maintain the status quo even if it meant everyone in Rokugan being ordered to die. You adhere too closely to a false interpretation of your duties and it is your downfall. Hantei has abandoned the Empire. Half of it can see that and has acted on this weakness.
I will deal with the present problems, along with Toturi, when he has the power and authority to do so. Only the Emperor commands the resources necessary to eradicate all the growing threats to the Empire.
If you can offer me a reasonable way to drop the hostilities and actually face the true foe then I would be the first to listen and do so. I would expect Hantei to issue such a decree though and properly and in full outline the threats and what is to be done about each - in his own words. Let him prove himself again and remove the severe doubt in his abilities that his been created. I think even the man once known as Kaneka would listen then too. However, I fear Hantei's title and daily pleasures are too much for him and occupy so much of his time that he would not consider such a simple tas.
I like how you speak for your Clan when you go against the majority of them. Kitsuki's method tells me that you are foolish to presume such a thing. I believe your Clan will instead happily raid whoever is the easiest prey...
Still, offer me a concrete compromise with set clauses and not some vague idea of fighting ill defined enemies together and I will listen.
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Post by Akodo Tsanuri on Aug 30, 2011 10:00:26 GMT -5
sometimes drastic actions must be taken for the sake of the Empire. it won't be the first time about the rumor: it isn;t important who spread it but if it is true or not Akodo-san, I must confess I find your understanding of Bushido, especially Chugo and Meyo, very strange if you don't question where the slander about your lawful liege comes from. And I simply can't see how so many people can state that a civil war is meant for the good of the Empire when, in fact, all it does is weaken us for no reason at all. Or do you think that unproven gossip about our Emperor is enough for a betrayal? Because, as I see it, our loyalty to the Empire and to the Emperor comes way before our loyalty to our families and Clans. So, please, help me understand which secret truth you have been exposed to because it eludes me. As does the validity of the arguments that support the claim that Akodo Kaneka has on the throne. Otherwise, please, don't try to sugarcoat the meaning of a knife in the back A talk about bushido! How wonderful. I will begin with: sorry for any mistakes and please don’t cling to every single word I use. I still have problems writing in English mostly lacking words and some may be used in not the best place or way. Great, now with that done, it was Bushido, right? Most important (or maybe better: popular) rules are Courage, Honor and Duty. I don’t try to imply other to be unimportant, but their understanding may be problematic and not really useful here. I hope you agree. So, Courage, Duty and Honor. Or Yu, Chudo and Meyo. I will start with Courage. The rulebook talks only about dying for your lord. Can’t say anything about that for now, that would be only plain words. But I’d say it need courage to do what you have to do regardless of the consequences. I situation that appeared I did and am doing what I feel is needed. So I’d say courage is done. Honor and Duty would be problematic to do without each other. They are very close yet the paths that they show may be different. Duty is more less “do what your lord orders you to do.” It is a bit problematic in this great war matter. Especially as ‘my vassal is my lord’s vassal’. So as my lord’s lord is… was Hantei the 3rd, he was also my lord. And as my lord, be it clan champion or family daimyo, renounced his vow, I am in a difficult situation. Theoretically. And here we go into interpretation of the last events. About most of them Yuushahime-sama wrote, so I won’t be repeating her words. You know, not reacting to Yobanjin threat, bloodseekers and all that stuff. So there came a question: was the Emperor-Hantei-dono actions correct? Were his actions serving the Empire, or just himself? You said you are loyal to the Empire and to the Emperor, but they are different. Emperor doesn’t serve the Empire if he didn’t protect it from external and internal dangers. So you go back to serve your Emperor, and I will continue serving the Empire. And going to Honor, cause I forgot about it. I don’t care what others think about me or my actions. I know motives that lay after every one of them and that is enough for me. About a source of gossips. As I recall, it was shogun’s Kaneka-dono own words. Of course his status is lower than Emperor’s but Hantei-dono didn’t react to this accusations at all. One his word would be enough to prevent this war and save the lifes or his people. But he didn’t say it.
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Aug 30, 2011 10:33:06 GMT -5
Also, study the Kitsuki method. No man's word, no matter who, should be taken for face value. Trust does not come into it. I must respectfully say that you have misinterpreted me. When I talked about trust I was referring to our duty to the Empire and the need an Emperor has to be trusted in order to rule effectively. One cannot rule effectively when all the factions that compose his government bicker. So, it had nothing to do with the Kitsuki method, of which I do have some knowledge. As for your other points, you say I'm too quick to trust the Emperor and I tell you that my allegiance is not to Hantei, personally, but to the Empire he represents and the Kami. I see that you, otherwise, is too quick to insult him. You even said the investigation wasn't concluded before you decided to support a side and, from all I've known of the Dragon, I would say you are too quick to stand in judgment of others. It would be of the utmost importance to discover if these rumors have a base of truth and, if they have, our Emperor should be, at least, presented with the facts and given a fair chance to justify his actions before we could even think about insurrection. Again, you say he was not open to counseling but I fail to see how creating a civil war, that can drag these conflicts for years, will speed the matters. And when I talked about legitimacy, is Akodo Kaneka-sama the son of Toturi I? Of course he is. Was he recognized as such? Yes, by his own brother Isawa Sezaru-sama. But does he have the better claim to the throne? No, he doesn't. I'm speaking of simple succession laws (and I'm assuming that Rokugan, like other feudal countries ruled by a monarch, follows them). They can be circumvented? Yes, they can, but not without good reason. So, what is my point and what do I fear? I fear that this war will drag on too long, the realm will suffer even more and we will be too weak to react appropriately to the dangers that plague the Empire. Or do you think the justice suddenly improved once the conflicts started? Is the Wall better guarded now? Do we have more food and security for the heimin? I know we don't. I must say, also, that I'm a shugenja, I'm not focused on personal Glory. My sole intent is to serve ably the Fortune who shaped my life and gave me a chance to protect the Empire that I love, that is, Inari. For that I will gladly sacrifice any amount of titles, claims or personal Glory if needed be. I also know I speak for the majority of the Mantis when I say we do not desire this civil war and, when the opportunity is finally presented to us, we will act in order to protect the common people and the structure of the realm. For, without that, we will surely be too weak, as a Clan and as an Empire, to face any external threats. So, please, do not presume to know my Clan better than me, for you yourself goes against the official decision of your Clan and do that for the sole reason of waging a war, instead of finishing your duty as an investigator. With that said, I am open to negotiations and if you ever desire to find a path that strays from the war and goes into the heart of all these symptoms, feel free to ask for my help, you'll have it. While I am far from being able to speak for the Emperor, I can guarantee you that you're not alone in trying to puzzle this situation. But we cannot hope to accomplish this while still engaged in these conflicts. Do I have little to offer? Yes, unfortunately I do for I am but a little fox. Still, we cannot hope to walk a different path if no one is intent on taking the first step towards it. I know I am, are you? EDIT: I don't disagree with Akodo Homura-san's interpretations and I think that my post to Yuushahime-san addresses some of those issues. I do disagree with how this whole matter is being conducted though, because if we follow this path, we will do nothing more than weaken the Empire and strengthen a few individuals who only seek to profit from this conflict. I won't name them because I don't think that is necessary. PS: I must say that while this all sounds like IC, it is and it is not, for our characters are not gathered somewhere talking about these issues over a cup of tea or sake. So, feel free to talk OOC about any of these matters.
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