Geisha Houses and Infamy

[Kakita Kyoshi]

Why do all the geisha houses give you infamy? Geisha houses are no brothels or such things, sure I can imagine that certain establishments (especially in Scorpion lands) might give you Infamy, but all? Even the one in Crane lands?

Geisha houses are for entertainment, to say people who visit them get infamy is like saying people who go to cinema can become infamous.

[Takezo]

That's a good point, especially considering that part of the "role" of Geisha houses (much like tea ceremony houses) is to render everyone equal and "free to speak" without loss of face.

It's important to distinguish Geisha houses (which should also be very rare, probably just one occurring in each appropriate Clan (excepting perhaps the Dragon, Unicorn and Crab), in its most culturally advanced city) and "mizushobai", a collective term for drinking houses, izakaya, brothels and the like (which might all award infamy).

[Kakita Shinji]

I think it's good simplification that gives a way of differing styles of play. After all while generally Geisha was well trained escorts. Not only in singing, dancing and playing instruments, but also in art of conversation, Go and such.

But there also were brothels, there was lot of sake involved, and being drunk and acting inappropriately sure did give one infamy. So I'm okay with way it works right now.

[Kakita Kyoshi]

Jan 18, 2011 8:09:05 GMT -5 Kakita Shinji said:

But there also were brothels, there was lot of sake involved, and being drunk and acting inappropriately sure did give one infamy. So I'm okay with way it works right now.

Geisha house were no brothels (even if they might be shown as such in certain movies). And in sake houses will be surely much more alcohol consumed (still they don't give Infamy or honourloss). And even if you act inappropriate there is just the geisha who sees you, not everyone like in a sake house. Nobody talks much about geisha houses, so just another reason why I think Infamy is misplaced there. I still see nothing wrong to like music and relax atmosphere (which I think is all a Geisha House does in Crane lands).

[Soshi Kiso]

I have to agree, besides the scorpion geisha house, I see no need for gaining infamy for enjoying an evening out with geisha. Going to drink at a sake house is a whole 'nother matter. Or a brothel for that matter...

[Bayushi Trevron]

I have to agree, awarding Infamy for visiting a Geisha House is inaccurate.
Even in Scorpion lands. Because, after all, the point is for other clans samurai to come there and tell our geisha their secrets. As it stands, I doubt hardly any other clan samurai come to geisha houses, and probably only a few Scorpion at that.

[Kakita Touken]

By my understanding while at a Geisha house a Samurai was supposed to be able to leave his Samurai status at the door and simply be a "man" for the duration of his stay. No normal social action at a Geisha house should result in infamy or honor loss, but it shouldn't result in glory or honor gain either. Although any anti-social behaviors like being abusive, excessively rude, or being violent to any degree could result in an honor loss and possibly a gain in infamy. Just my 2 zeni.

[kasuga]

Inside the world of rokugan, it is called the "floating world" and your actions there have no consequence outside those houses. You can say things that would give you dishonor, shame or infamy within the house and it should have no impact outside it. Doesn't matter which clan's lands it is in.

Brothels and Bars, as stated above, are an entirely different manner.

I do think that those jobs should be tweaked...

[Kakita Kyoshi]

Nice to see that I am not alone with this...

So who will tell Jay and Alison that it should be changed, because it seems like they do not read this thread.

[Jay Luo]

Jan 31, 2011 17:12:09 GMT -5 Kakita Kyoshi said:

Nice to see that I am not alone with this...

So who will tell Jay and Alison that it should be changed, because it seems like they do not read this thread.

My apologies for not addressing this earlier. We did read this thread and discussed it among ourselves, and our initial feeling is that we would like to distinguish between "nice" geisha houses (that don't give infamy) and flat-out brothels (which would give infamy). However, we have a limited amount of spare time to work on the game, and addressing this hasn't been a top priority, so it hasn't happened yet.

[Kakita Kyoshi]

Feb 9, 2011 22:45:51 GMT -5 Jay Luo said:

However, we have a limited amount of spare time to work on the game, and addressing this hasn't been a top priority, so it hasn't happened yet.

I understand this, and can wait for it. Thanks for telling me that you are aware of this. Hope the House of the Jade Princess will be one of the nice gaisha houses (played that back in diamond in my honour runner deck.)