Post by Mirumoto Shigekazu on Oct 6, 2011 6:20:40 GMT -5
I have read "The Art of Warfare" by Sun Tzu many times in two languages and in many interpretations (because when speaking of ancient Chinese and Western languages we cannot say "translation") but some things still wonders me and I want to discuss about them here.
For purposes of this discussion I use www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html and any quotes that appear here come from this page. If you use any other interpretation, please note that in your post.
II, 5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war,
cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
I cannot see why long delay cannot be clever.
IV, 5. "Security against defeat implies defensive tactics; ability to defeat the enemy means taking the offensive."
If we are secure against the enemy and it is impossible for him to defeat us but we are not able to defeat him also (and would not be) but he is refusing to accept peace, what can we do but delay?
VII, 7. Thus, if you order your men to roll up their
buff-coats, and make forced marches without halting day
or night, covering double the usual distance at a stretch,
doing a hundred LI in order to wrest an advantage,
the leaders of all your three divisions will fall into
the hands of the enemy.
I cannot see why forcing march is always so bad? Of course, exhausted man will fight worse than fresh but if with forced march we can capture a fortress which can defend for long time and is crucial for enemy advance - why not? I see it is risky since enemy can intercept our marching exhausted forces but it would require long-range reconnaissance which is not always possible and even with such knowledge he may be not able to attack marching forces.
VII, 35. (...) Do not interfere with an army that is returning home.
Why not? It would fight more fiercely because they feel the home? Letting enemy go home, rest and regroup is not wise thing to do in my opinion.
IX, 9. In dry, level country, take up an easily accessible
position with rising ground to your right and on your rear,
so that the danger may be in front, and safety lie behind.
So much for campaigning in flat country.
Why safety should be on our right side? Because of shield in left hand? There are more places where Sun Tzu mentions that right side is safer and better. Does i have anything to do with ancient Chinese superstitions or religion?
IX, 11. All armies prefer high ground to low and sunny
places to dark.
Why sunny places are always better? Defending with archers against cavalry in dense woods is wiser than facing them in the open field. Or maybe I do not understand term "sunny place"?
IX, 15. Country in which there are precipitous cliffs
with torrents running between, deep natural hollows,
confined places, tangled thickets, quagmires and crevasses,
should be left with all possible speed and not approached.
IX, 16. While we keep away from such places, we should
get the enemy to approach them; while we face them,
we should let the enemy have them on his rear.
I fully understand why such dangerous places should be avoided but why put them on enemy's rear? If he know of them he would feel he has no escape and fight more fiercely.
Of course if something more comes to my mind I will post it here also. I highly encourage you to open discussion since I am very curios what your thoughts and opinions are.
For purposes of this discussion I use www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html and any quotes that appear here come from this page. If you use any other interpretation, please note that in your post.
II, 5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war,
cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
I cannot see why long delay cannot be clever.
IV, 5. "Security against defeat implies defensive tactics; ability to defeat the enemy means taking the offensive."
If we are secure against the enemy and it is impossible for him to defeat us but we are not able to defeat him also (and would not be) but he is refusing to accept peace, what can we do but delay?
VII, 7. Thus, if you order your men to roll up their
buff-coats, and make forced marches without halting day
or night, covering double the usual distance at a stretch,
doing a hundred LI in order to wrest an advantage,
the leaders of all your three divisions will fall into
the hands of the enemy.
I cannot see why forcing march is always so bad? Of course, exhausted man will fight worse than fresh but if with forced march we can capture a fortress which can defend for long time and is crucial for enemy advance - why not? I see it is risky since enemy can intercept our marching exhausted forces but it would require long-range reconnaissance which is not always possible and even with such knowledge he may be not able to attack marching forces.
VII, 35. (...) Do not interfere with an army that is returning home.
Why not? It would fight more fiercely because they feel the home? Letting enemy go home, rest and regroup is not wise thing to do in my opinion.
IX, 9. In dry, level country, take up an easily accessible
position with rising ground to your right and on your rear,
so that the danger may be in front, and safety lie behind.
So much for campaigning in flat country.
Why safety should be on our right side? Because of shield in left hand? There are more places where Sun Tzu mentions that right side is safer and better. Does i have anything to do with ancient Chinese superstitions or religion?
IX, 11. All armies prefer high ground to low and sunny
places to dark.
Why sunny places are always better? Defending with archers against cavalry in dense woods is wiser than facing them in the open field. Or maybe I do not understand term "sunny place"?
IX, 15. Country in which there are precipitous cliffs
with torrents running between, deep natural hollows,
confined places, tangled thickets, quagmires and crevasses,
should be left with all possible speed and not approached.
IX, 16. While we keep away from such places, we should
get the enemy to approach them; while we face them,
we should let the enemy have them on his rear.
I fully understand why such dangerous places should be avoided but why put them on enemy's rear? If he know of them he would feel he has no escape and fight more fiercely.
Of course if something more comes to my mind I will post it here also. I highly encourage you to open discussion since I am very curios what your thoughts and opinions are.
