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Post by Morito Mori on Oct 11, 2011 23:06:40 GMT -5
(I request an OOC sister thread to this be opened, because all of you are apparently at Permission City and it is impossible to be two places at once and I'd like to solve that issue without filling this thread w/ OOC banter)
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Agasha Shodai
Phoenix Clan Mod ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png)
Phoenix Clan * The Void Master * Tensai * Taisa * Enlightened * Paragon of Compassion * Unique
Posts: 783
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Post by Agasha Shodai on Oct 12, 2011 10:31:01 GMT -5
(OOC, I'm sure Kazuma will be able to arrange that; generally speaking we would assume these events are occurring before the move south. For example, I have a thread on the Imperial forum that is occurring after Kaneka made his declaration, but before the Great Clans made a decision of whom to support.)
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Post by Morito Mori on Oct 12, 2011 22:01:41 GMT -5
(Alright, but we still need to talk about what we all want from this thread and find a good story telling solution that makes everyone happy; this is a cooperative attempt to write fiction, not a contest)
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Shiba Kazuma
Phoenix Clan Mod ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png)
Phoenix Clan Champion?Samurai?Shiba's Soul?Unique?Enlightened
Posts: 369
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Post by Shiba Kazuma on Oct 13, 2011 9:51:02 GMT -5
This thread is for occ purposes.
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Post by Morito Mori on Oct 13, 2011 14:38:46 GMT -5
Ok, so we know the Phoenix army makes it out of Shiro Chuda to make it to the warfront; the question is how we get there without anyone getting flustered.
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Post by Morito Asuka on Oct 13, 2011 22:43:28 GMT -5
also, how are we incorporating Venomous shrine? Tamihemei SHoju has a few followers and they are there at Shiro Chuda too while we are sortee'ing this out. Shoju was interested in joining us somehow
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Agasha Shodai
Phoenix Clan Mod ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png)
Phoenix Clan * The Void Master * Tensai * Taisa * Enlightened * Paragon of Compassion * Unique
Posts: 783
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Post by Agasha Shodai on Oct 14, 2011 9:10:05 GMT -5
The Phoenix army isn't in the ruins; only Kazuma's personal troops.
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Post by Shoju on Oct 14, 2011 9:34:49 GMT -5
Well, I will chime in here and let you know what is up. The Venemous Shrine is just a simple shrine with some monks, paying homage to Isawa Chuda. They are more "with me" than "against me" so to speak, but they aren't claiming to be Snake Clan members, as they are monks.
When, I finally get to Rokugan (the Rp is taking longer than I thought) My plan is to come looking to speak with the Ox Clan, and the Phoenix Clan, about retaking my Families Lands, preferably without incident as Shoju is trying to be an honorable, peaceful man just trying to lead those who chose to follow him.
That doesn't mean that we wont come to blows if need be though :-)
I'm hoping that everyone gets back into the RP over the weekend to get us wrapped up. if not, on monday I will be looking to wrap that up and just move on so that I can come play on the Dragon's heart Plain.
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Post by Morito Mori on Oct 14, 2011 17:20:34 GMT -5
I was under the impression that as Phoenix clan champion Kazuma's troops were a huge number of men, and as the Phoenix have the smallest army in all of the Great Clans of Rokugan, that this was a considerable confrontation. If its his retinue of a few dudes and some shugenja, then things are different. According to L5R4th ed, the ox are the greatest military minor clan, so this fight isn't so uneven. I really do want this to end with both sides happy. I've been talking with TPO Kazuma out of character and we might be approaching a decent solution.
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Post by Morito Asuka on Oct 14, 2011 17:46:27 GMT -5
Ok, so this is just the plot points from my understanding of reading. Also included is A quick summary for my own sense of order. I need help assigning hours, as this seems to be a LOT of movement over vast spaces for it to have occurred in a single day. we probably need to correct posts to reflect that unless we can all shadow jump:
Setting: Northern Dragon heart plain(Heigen Ryo Kokoro)
(FB blurb)The vast open plain that separates the Dragon and Phoenix provinces is known as the Dragon Heart Plain. Despite the relatively cool climate, the region is quite fertile; yet it is not cultivated for food production. Odd things are sometimes found in the Dragon Heart Plain, things that have no business in the mortal realm, and their presence cannot be accounted for.
Background of the area: The northern end of the plain is a haunted place where taint can crop up at any moment, and where Shiro Chuda once stood on the east edge, and where Shiro Morito has stood since 1132 on the NW edge. The plains are disputed territory, historically unoficially belonging to the phoenix as they have cared for it for centuries since the fall of the Chuda clan, but now technically, but not officially within the territory of the Ox. I stress *disputed* land, as the phoenix claim for it only because of the tabs they keep on the ruins of shiro Chuda. Historically, the Dragon also have disputed over the territory, as it borders with their southern territories, and the plains saw battle as recently as the dragon-phoenix war. Dragon refugees were forced into the plain during the war, and Mirumoto Jinnosuke took the Ki-rin shrine during a battle in 1158. Other than the shrine and Shiro Morito, the only other two cities within sight of the plain are the (relatively large and prosperous for a dragon city) trade city of heibeisu, and Shiro Mirumoto (last Glance castle).
The southern plains are uninhabitable and rocky with scarce provision, water, or use.
Snake Clan plot: Khamul and a group of monks have built a small shrine on the plain near the ruins of Shiro Chuda dedicated to the ancestor of the snake clan, Isawa Chuda. Tamihei Shoju has in posession a an artifact that Khamul wants and has asked for, which will go toward the completion of the shrine. Khamul is waiting for Shoju to arrive Mirumoto Saiko seems to become aware of this, but has not yet acted on it
Morito Clan Plot: Morito Mori, Ox clan Champion, great-grandson of the Daimyo, Lord Morito, has decided to take advantage of the distracting influence of the wars in the south, and decided to bring a force to claim officially the Dragon Heart Plain. The Ox need range land for their cavalry, training, and husbandry, as they are a mounted force. He knows that the bulk of the phoenix and Dragon army is headed south to join the Crane and the imperial families against the treacherous rebellion of Kaneka and his allied clans, the lion, Unicorn, mantis, and crab. The ox are in a tenuous position. They haven't officially declared, as that would be the decision of the daimyo, but every one of their traditional allies have declared for Kaneka, and the clan champion seems to support him as well. The only safety net that prevents the Ox from being stamped out by association is the imperial mandate forbidding Major Clans from warring upon Minor Clans, as well as Lord Morito's declaration (fb quote) "My lands shall be free of war until such time as I choose otherwise." Mori is not technically in violation of Morito's declalration, as since the Dragon Heart plain is contested territory, the lands are not officially, though technically, in Ox lands.
Phoenix plot: The phoenix plan to secure the contested territory of the Dragon heart Plain for the phoenix and present a unified northern front of Dragon and phoenix against the treacherous south. They know the Ox are there, and an unknown entity. the dragon border it to the west, and are allies. The Lion border it now to the south since their taking of toshi ranbo and associated lands, and they are enemies. A small force has been dispatched to secure the lands and avoid contention with the Ox. It is important to the phoenix to secure these lands so that their forces are not weakened by the possibility of war on more than one border.
The story thus far: Shiba Kazuma, Isawa Goro, and two inquisitors Earth/water specialist Shiba Ame, and Fire/Air specialist Agasha Agito take a small company comprised of those samurai loyal to Kazuma alone west from Shiro Shiba on the coast, headed for the dragon Heart plain. The mission is a good distraction for Shiba Kazuma, who is known for sanding with Kaneka while the majority of the rest of the phoenix are delared for Hantei.
they arrive and encamp on Inaraio hill near to the ruins of Shiro Chuda on the eastern slope of the valley plain.
Kazuma sends 200 men with Goro in command to scout Shiro Chuda, anoter 100-200 men to scout the general area, and leaves 1,000 men in camp.
As the Phoenix are encamping and scouting, Morito mori moves a large number of troops (cavalry, archers, infantry) out of Shiro Morito and into the Dragon Heart Plain. Morito Mori discovers the Phoenix already there and sends a letter to the Shiba explaining the need for territory for their horses to support their very large army, which is at this point the largest minor clan army in Rokugan. He offers to let the phoenix continue their vigil of Shiro Chuda, but to let the phoenix cede their claim on the Plain itself to the Ox.
The phoenix, being under the direction of the elemental council, cannot move again until ordered.
the Ox let their livestock down into the plain to graze.
meanwhile, Goro and his band encounter the open blood pool at shiri Chuda, Goro is slaughtered and dishonored by his screams. Nobody has found the Venomous shrine yet, but the bloodspeakers are certainly there.
As a result of the incident, the phoenix entrench themslves. They have a duty over shiro Chuda now that maho is involved, but the Ox are unaware of it. Letters were sent to advise the ox of Maho use in the area, and that the phoenix are taking care of it, and cannot leave because of it.
The clan Champion, Morito Mori, reads the most recent letter and refuses to retreat from the field. [speculation)There is always Maho use on the dragon heart plain. The Ox have been tracking and killing bloodspeakers on the plain from day 1 that they took the lands. This is not news to him. The letter is apparently seen as a threat to make the Ox leave.[end speculation) He advises the Phoenix that he is not moving and request that the phoenix go before noon the next day.
The phoenix move their troops from their hill camp into Shiro Chuda to begin cleansing the area.
The ox, oblivious to this action, waits patiently for the phoenix to act against them or in agreement.
A runner leaves from Shiro Chuda, {inexplicably due to the location of the ox lines as related to where shiro chuda is vs. where he is going} through the Ox lines. He is left alone
At twilight, the hour of the dog, Morito Asuka, a young female of mixed gaijin and rokugani ancestry, rides in from the direction of Heibeisu, from where she was diverted along the road home by news of the Ox encamping in the valley. She is returning on the orders of her Daimyo and from the Otomo court. She has been granted the title of Clan magistrate, and she is coming home to report to the clan Champion and recieve her first assignment as a travelling magistrate of the Ox lands. This she does, meeting Lord mori in the field instead of the Shiro as she had expected.
Night falls.
--------------- Geography: ox would most sensibly be encamped in the northern part of the plain, nearest to the shiro, which is on the Northwest slope. Shiro Chuda seems to be (correct me if I am wrong) on the southeastern slope of the northern DHP. The Shiba encampment would be nearby Shiro Chuda. T
This seems a long way away as far as a non-mechanized battle is concerned, for a battle, or for runners or scouts to deliver messages in a single day. The Ox probably can't see what is going on at Shiro Chuda. It's probably hidden behind the hills. For that matter, they probably can't see the Shiba encampment either. the Ox must have been tipped off to Phoenix presence by a scouting party, because I don't know how long the Shiba were on the plain scouting before the Morito entered it. Long enough to send scouts but not long enough to send an emmisary across the plain to deal with the Ox. WHat I'm saying is, If I'm looking at the map correctly, Shiro Chuda is about as far from Shiro Morito as Toshi Ranbo is from Permission City
Question 2 is how we are going to be incorporating the strange weather into the battle, as the RP thread started right before the weather off of the coast. It seems to me that if the weather is to be figured in, the storms would have been affecting Shiro Shiba just as they were leaving, or just afterwards
Also, are these particular phoenix involved in permission city? It would seem that 3500 men is a very small force considering the 10000+ strong forces that are being put to field per clan, it would be sensible to have that many stay behind to enforce the border, so if you're not already RP ing down there, there''s no reason for it not to be concurrent with the present situation
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Post by Shoju on Oct 14, 2011 19:54:57 GMT -5
Asuka, You are close. I'm not affiliated with Khamul technically. He came and asked me for an artifact of Isawa Chuda's to place in the shrine to give it legitimacy, and has asked that when I secured my lands I allow them to continue to tend the shrine unimpeded.
I have obliged, hoping that when I arrive on the plains, Khamul will be a valuable source of intelligence on the movements of those on the plains, both clans and tsukai alike.
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Post by Morito Asuka on Oct 14, 2011 20:40:14 GMT -5
Ok, I updated it. This is right now?
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Agasha Shodai
Phoenix Clan Mod ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png)
Phoenix Clan * The Void Master * Tensai * Taisa * Enlightened * Paragon of Compassion * Unique
Posts: 783
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Post by Agasha Shodai on Oct 14, 2011 23:04:21 GMT -5
A few other things:
The 3500 men thing was more Isawa Goro's idea, but he turned out to be a guy metagaming across clans by having multiple forum characters, so we basically eraticated him and removed his characters. (Hence the very gruesome & bloody end I wrote for him.)
Agasha Shodai is actually the Phoenix Clan Void Master and is not currently present. Shiba Ame is an Earth and Water specialist while Agasha Agito is a Fire / Air specialist. Both are members of the Phoenix Inquisitors that Shodai suggested Kazuma take with him when he moved his personal forces - the samurai loyal specifically to him - (since Kazuma had been siding with Kaneka while the Council - and the larger clan - supported Hantei.) As Agito's secondary element is Air, he would have known about the Ox Clan coming several hours in advance thanks to the air kami.
A few "days" after the conflict starts, the Elemental Council's forces - the bulk of the Phoenix Clan's army - will move into the Valley of the Two Generals at the mouth of the Firefly River (the river splits the Dragon Heart Plain from the rest of the contiguous Phoenix Clan lands) to amass for the southbound movement.
This would be the most sensitive time in the conflict because if the Ox Clan move out of the disputed territory into what is definitely Phoenix land or attack the Phoenix forces, that would make the Ox the aggressors and the 2nd Emperor's edict would no longer apply since they would be fighting a reactionary battle. This is the idea that Agasha Agito, who is a fiery tempered militant shugenja (as compared to the more pacifistic Isawa,) suggests Kazuma allow him to instigate by using his magic to command the local kami into stirring up the Ox clan's animals by scaring them with a lightning storm, figuring that if the animals suddenly go wild, the Ox samurai will have to try and catch the animals and might make a mistake. Whether Kazuma with give the go-ahead or refuse to use what is arguably an underhanded tactic and choose to maintain the stalemate - while seeking another option that will satisfy the Council's refusal of the Ox clan's tongue-in-cheek threat and theft (a repeat of what the original Morito did 30-odd years ago) and keep the fight from erupting into a greater conflict - remains to be seen.
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Post by Morito Asuka on Oct 15, 2011 13:59:36 GMT -5
I am looking at the 3ed map, which is the one on the wiki, and trying to compare it to the imageshack map of the FB game, the problem being that none of the maps I can find have the rivers labeled. looking on the 3ed map, the river that comes out of the lake on the phoenix side, that should be the drowned merchant river, that was what I was thinking, as it flows right by toshi Ranbo, eventually. Firefly river I thought was more within sight of Shiro Moto on the other side of the northern empire in the white shore plain.
There are a few discrepencies between the FB chain of locations and the actual map, for instance permission city being directly north of Toshi Ranbo in FB whereas it's actually south and east. Toshi ranbo is supposed to be directly west, as the crow flies, from city of rememberance, but some concessions have to be made for programming, is my guess.
FB has Shiro chuda being directly south of Shiro Morito, but it's not, if I'm reading things corectly, Shiro Morito should be directly on the northern edge of the plain.
We shouldn't have to deal with anything the bulk of the phoenix army is doing as we would have to bring our forces across the largely uninhabitable face of the southern plain, and down through Nanashi Mura. That is a very dangerous route because the land of the southern plain is unpredictable for foot travel,let alonefor cavalry. Likely, if we wanted to go south, rather than risk the plain, we would have to take the roads through the dragon provinces to get out of where we are, as the roads through the phoenix lands go to shrines first, and are probably not suited for the movement of whole armies. The valley of 2 generals is way too far south for our purposes. We're not even coming as far south as the drowned merchant. This incident is completely within the northern plain, unless Mori has some input on it, considering it's his plot.
There is a point about the cattle. If Oxen did try to flee, we would have to account them as lost. They are stupid beasts and would surely run into a patch of tainted land. We can't risk bringing back tainted cattle, not that we plan to eat them, as we are Rokugani after all, but we wouldn't want tainted cattle to taint our barley fields as they are being used by peasants to work the land. Yes we need the land for graze for our horses, but we know because we have to live in the area, the dangers of the plain. Our horses would have to be carefully tended and cared for, and watched for taint by the few shugenjas we have. The oxen thing is confusing me too, both in character and out. I probably need some OOC insight as to why that occurred.
INcidentally, it is doubtful that samurai would go chasing after stampeded cattle, no matter where it might be in the empire. That's more of a peasant's job. More likely,at this point, the oxen in a panic, since they are loosely grazing, have a better chance of trashing our lines and really hurting our samurai, and since we know the phoenix love their magic, it might be easy to declare that as an attack whether or not the thunder that spooked them was natural.
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Post by Morito Mori on Oct 15, 2011 15:07:15 GMT -5
Let me lay my forces on the table: -The Ox Clan's Cavalry Forces -The Broken Guard Ronin Mercenary Company -As many Ronin Shugenja as he could hire.
And Asuka, Shugenja and Bushi training School wise are never allowed to mix, or so says my L5R 4th ed book.
As to stampedeing cattle, they would be pacified as much as possible by our own Shugenja and what we didn't pacify would inevitably get back to us with time. We're not going to send armed troops into Phoenix lands, gonna bribe Phoenix peasants to return our live stock or just take the loss while we besiege. Offer of our deal still stands though; we're willing to cough up Shiro Chuda, and to sweeten the deal we'd agree to Kuni Witch Hunter inspection to ensure we do not end up tainted.
The Phoenix want to cleanse Shiro Chuda and we want you to do that. The Phoenix want the Dragon Heart plains inspected and we're willing to allow a trusted 3rd Party to do so. There's no reason this siege ever has to turn into a "hot" war as simply starving the Phoenix out is more tactically advantageous to us than assaulting in many, many ways.
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