Shoju thanks for missing my point. Let me repeat it - "Whether it's infamy or taint - I think there should be more jobs that reward honourable or just plain not infamous/tainted samurai"
And I am saying that by lumping taint in with Infamy, you are doing your argument a disservice. As Shokuma pointed out, there are 32 jobs that have a max taint allowance, yet just 22 jobs that they can see (I would venture the number is closer to 30-35 that give taint.)
That, is pretty balanced.
When you compare that with the infamy.
58 infamy giving jobs. 2 random encounters have a max infamy, no normal job has a max infamy. 2 jobs have a minimum infamy.
I think, we found the imbalance.
1.) No, I read it, and I agree with you about infamy. i have gone
out of my way to prove that infamy is the imbalancing factor in play here,
2.) Nope. But our fair kakita just provided evidence that it is pretty close in numbers.
I think with the Kakita's numbers, and my addition of several jobs that I'm confident that they can't see, the numbers are
incredibly close. Almost close enough that I would wager that..... it might almost have been... designed that way?
I'm just asking you to take a look at the evidence, and consider the possibility that things are not nearly as lopsided as you think. We all get it. There is a subset of players who are unhappy that they don't get more recognition for choosing to not take on taint or infamy.
Fine. I want recognition that I have
35 THOUSAND glory.
6 THOUSAND honor.
6 THOUSAND infamy,
and 3 THOUSAND Taint.
None of those numbers are negative.
I, and now Shokuma have gone out of our way to provide numbers that the imbalance just doesn't exist in the way that you think it does.
Maybe, in a perfect set of circumstances, say..... I seppuku my character right now, and meticulously plan out the path I take to level my character, I could in fact gain a theoretical advantage over someone else, but that is taking a LARGE leap from playing a game that has no "reward" for enjoyment of the setting, and turning it into the type of thing that hardcore Warcraft players do to gain a statistical advantage in raid fights.
This game just doesn't have that type of player yet. I don't think that it will either, because there is no reward at the end.
To Zeure - The fact there are even that many items that are from taint missions or what have you allows me my displeasure. Introduce an even number of items that require 0 taint and/or 0 infamy that are that powerful/useful and I will be pleased.
Everything that I can get from a taint bearing mission has an equal and opposite version for a non tainted player save the Standard. If you want to get technical, and talk about the difference that these items make in a competition, well... look at Koichi, Sprinkles, Kiso, and Myself in the Spellcraft competition. I think that we have firmly dispelled the notion that those items have some sort of tangible effect on things.
Unless of course, there is an intimidation contest coming up.... And then, well Iguess you're screwed and we Spider are going to crush everyone.
You keep going on about this idea that "well you could get it before you were tainted". Sure. We could have. You could go and get my toys as well, and then work off the taint in the Crab Lands, and it will be like a simple misclick. In the realm of this game, a single point of taint is
REALLY INSIGNIFICANTIf we are going to start looking at ways to reward those players who "have no taint and infamy" I want to see some rewards for being tainted and infamous. I want to see something that I can do but you can't. Some serious. I want my own version of Reihado Shinsei.
I have not told you to shut up. I have told you, Bring me some facts. Bring me some proof. bring me some numbers. Show me that there is a problem. Show me that the game is imbalanced in a tangible way. I look at the inclusion of taint in this discussion in the same light that many dragon look at the myth of the "one dragon who made them hantei supporters"
It really irritates the Spider players when people talk about this stuff, because it truly does make them feel like they are doing something wrong, or playing the game wrong. People look at it as us gaming the system or something, and we are sitting around and wondering when and where this is happenning?
It doesn't happen. Karteru has been the most meticulous about planning out how he did things. He has gone out of his way to make sure he did things in a manner that would allow him to get all of the "no taint" stuff before he went after the tainted stuff, and look at that. he is
STILL inline with the rest of the playerbase.
He isn't head and shoulders above people. He isn't blowing the doors off of people. He is right in there with the top tier of players who play this game.
I'm not asking you, or demanding you shut up. I am however telling you, that if you want to continue this discussion, you are going to need to start showing some proof. Your statements are having a negative impact on the forum going experience of multiple players, and as an admin, I'm stepping up and saying "Make your case, and show some numbers" or knock it off.
It's not rude. It's not me being a jerk. It's me putting my foot down. As one of the players who is REALLY tired of hearing about how other people are so disadvantaged because I'm allowing myself to play with taint and you aren't, It really is a point of contention. It bothers me. it bothers other Spider Players.
The only reason that I engaged in this conversation the last time it showed up here on the boards, is because 2 spiders jsut quit playing, because they felt like they were doing something wrong by being spider players.
You show me where my numbes are wrong. You show me where
taint is imbalanced, and I will happily concede my point. But you are trying to make this about taint and infamy, and I'm speaking clearly, only about taint.
I even went out of my way in my results to show that you
WERE RIGHT that infamy is imbalanced in the game.
Well, I'm happy for there to be requirements of certain amounts of honour and glory. I just don't like restricting missions to characters who have been around a while rather than everyone - starting players or players with new characters being unable to click a mission is hardly fair either in my mind.
There is already plenty of introductory content for players. It is time that there start being content designed for the large population of players who are level 150 and higher.
Just like an MMO, this game has a rich and extensive collection of content for the new player. By designed end game content, you are now showing that your decisions made while leveling, do have a tangible, real effect on your end game progression.
Currently, you keep saying that I can get the items before I taint up. Well.... What about the items that get released after I 'taint up'? Those are now unavailable to me, and render that part of the argument invalid.
But they are a choice that is fitting with the setting. Not some idle self imposed limitation - but something meaningful and significant.
You decision to play without taint and infamy is no more fitting to the setting than my desire to play with them. It is just as meaningful and significant of a choice. In the "life" of my character my choices to use taint, and 'succumb' to the black scroll are just as meaningful and significant as Your characters desires to be a kistuki magistrate.
I kind of feel like you have this opinion that because you are honorable, and not infamous you are in fact, placing a higher value on the decisions your character has made, than those that I have made.
No. We can't do every action. This could only be true if right now, this very moment, Jay stops creating content for this game. Otherwise, this point is invalid, because I can't do the new content once I'm tainted.
The same can be held true for taint. I'm at 3000 taint. THREE THOUSAND. That's 3000 DAYS of doing the same action. Napkin math says! 8.219178082191781 YEARS to get back to 1 taint.
That's not really viable now, is it?
And this is what we get to at the end. You feel that you are doing it right, and that we are doing it wrong, and that we shouldn't allowed to be playing this way, and that you should get the gold star for playing "the right way"
I'm trying to be as polite as possible here: Get over it. We play one way. You play another. That is the beauty of this game.
Just because multiple people have the same opinion, doesn't make it right, or factual. I do believe several hundred years ago, the prevailing opinion was that the earth was indeed, flat.
Then if you want things to be better for you in that area, honor checks, and what not, I want things to be better, and easier, and what not for me. i want my choice to be a tainted shugenja to mean something.
otherwise, what incentive do I have to continue to play the game?