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Post by Shoju on Dec 5, 2011 20:17:12 GMT -5
Yukihime, There are some things, that as an Administrator, I do have the power to just 'say'. I don't like to do that. I don't like to make 'proclamations', but I will from time to time, and this is one of those times, I'm fairly comfortable just "saying" it. The Private boards are not going anywhere anytime soon. Feel free to discuss it. PLEASE. Maybe you can sway my opinion to think about it. But right now? no. They aren't going anywhere. It wouldn't be the first time that I have decided something and then recanted my position. But, unlike a discipline system in place for breaking rules, This is talking about a large portion of the management system of the board. I am not going to just uproot and remove a large section of that. This is a forum. There are portions of forum communities that are very democratic. And there are other parts, that are just not. The board structure, is one of those things that REALLY can't be democratic. Especially when it involves removing a large portion of the structure of the board. Nothing is truly democratic. This forum is more of a..... representative democracy. Your unwillingness to understand that there is a need for some things to be democratic, and some things to be authoritarian is unfortunate. If I were to take a moment and play devil's advocate, If we get rid of the private forums, we remove the need for 2 star Clan Mods. The 3 stars and Admins can police the rest of the board. We aren't that big of a forum like you say. Are you willing to remove that as well? I was not aware that Mitsouko wasn't voted mod. I was under the impression that she was voted to the position to be quite honest. Personally, and Mitsouko can attest to this since I PM'd her the details about how I prefer these types of thigns to be voted, the poll would have had a 7 day automatic locking duration. its how I handled My own vote to Spider Mod. Its how I handled the Unicorn Champion Vote Its how I handled the Spider Obsidian Champion Regent vote It was how I recommended to Mitsouko that the Crane Clan go about appointing themselves a mod, and a new champion. The Spider vote didn't even reach the end of the vote. The vote was between Thrak and one other person, and the other person bowed out when it was obvious that Thrak was going to win. Sometimes, there is no shame in ending a vote early because the results are blatantly obvious. I don't know that I would have ended it personally in either case. The only reason the spider vote ended early was because the other person bowed out. But it was still obvious.
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Kakita Mitsouko
Crane Clan Mod
::Daimyo::Kenshinzen::Hatamoto of Crane Clan::Paragon of Duty
Posts: 1,952
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Post by Kakita Mitsouko on Dec 5, 2011 20:18:41 GMT -5
Whatever you are trying to make here, should had be dealt better if you acted always you thought you had a misunderstanding with me. But like you said, it's not personal, so I don't understand the point of your edition in your last post. Several times I said people were free to talk with me, or any other mod about me, if they feel I was being inadequate somehow. Did you do it? No. You can conduct the issues to the 3*mod of your choice, if you feels that a player/mod different opinion with some of your sugestions is an issue. Disagreeing is healthy, as long it's not aggressive or offensive. Or endless. Or pointless. By all the comments gathered here, the general opinion is that nothing is perfect, but people aren't supporting/demandind a change either. Most people in fact supported the private forums. Anyway, it's up to the staff (admins), Setsuro being the big boss, the ultimate word in what is changed and how. It's what Shoju said.
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Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
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Post by Asahina Yukihime on Dec 5, 2011 20:23:48 GMT -5
Errr... What am I doing here? >.o (I just feel like nearly no one got what I was saying -_- really, can someone besides Manji answer?)
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Zeure
Crane Clan
Crane Clan ? Samurai ? Duelist ? Artisan ? Guardian of Metal ? Unique
Posts: 826
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Post by Zeure on Dec 5, 2011 20:27:35 GMT -5
I get what you are saying. But I have no significant thing to respond with. My opinions differ from yours.
*shrugs*
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Dec 5, 2011 20:30:28 GMT -5
I would say that I disagree with you Shoju (especially when you say this is a "representative democracy". No, its not, let us please not kid ourselves about it), but I prefer to step down from this discussion, since it will lead us nowhere. I already know things won't change, I personally couldn't care less, so, lets leave it at that. My point is, I love both Mitsouko and Yuki, I don't wanna see them squabble over trifling matters, which is the only reason why I posted here. Please girls, talk honestly with one another to clear this thing, let's not build resentment because of this topic. Feel free to talk to me if you need to. And...
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Kakita Mitsouko
Crane Clan Mod
::Daimyo::Kenshinzen::Hatamoto of Crane Clan::Paragon of Duty
Posts: 1,952
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Post by Kakita Mitsouko on Dec 5, 2011 20:45:11 GMT -5
Big big hug sua raposa felpuda! I am all for it.
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Post by Shoju on Dec 5, 2011 21:05:01 GMT -5
You don't think this is a representative democracy?
REALLY?
At this point, I almost want to say that you are just trying to be contrary about things.
How much needs put to a vote before you would think so?
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Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
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Post by Asahina Yukihime on Dec 5, 2011 21:17:10 GMT -5
Ow well... doesn't really matter, since the 1st post I wrote I wasn't expecting (or requesting) changes. Those were just points to think about, illustrated with Crane situations because are the ones I know better. "Your unwillingness to understand that there is a need for some things to be democratic, and some things to be authoritarian is unfortunate." <=All I told is not to call one thing another -_- Shoju, you told you were not aware of what happened on the Crane mod voting <=That's why I was calling for "transparency". I believe info should flow more freely and easily. I also believe you would like to have know about it before making your post, am I wrong? I have a few more instances in mind but won't bring up to avoid more mess. And... *reading these fast posters* No... no... stop that *steps back* Don't do it >.< ( urso polar foi apelacao ) Great, group hug >.o now rage is over You (both) gonna make me cry now -_- Well, as we're already here... Shoju, specially for you, in case you wanna join (could not resist )
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Post by Shoju on Dec 5, 2011 21:39:36 GMT -5
I am on my phone right now, but wanted to point out one thing. No, I didn't need to know before I made my post about mitsouko. I have to trust that setsuro and tomatsu are both making decisions with the best interests of the board in mind. I can't expect them to double check every single thing that they do, and I expect the same from them.
I personally don't think that setsuro would have stepped in and made mitsouko the mod if the vote was highly contested or if someone else would have been winning the vote. So at worst, he just closed it early. With the turmoil that was surrounding the crane clan at that point, while I would have done it differently, I can't fault him for the way he did it.
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Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
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Post by Asahina Yukihime on Dec 5, 2011 22:21:04 GMT -5
Well, if you don't need/like/prefer accurate info, it's a personal preference.
You just made a post saying something, then turned out that this something was not exactly true (because you didn't had the info) and you don't mind? I can't add anything about it.
Again, voting was an instance. The real abstract situation I'm dealing with here is the "blurred info" all over. Privates slowing (or not, I'm not assertive or sure about it yet) info flow, etc.
Instance is just an instance, I'm not blaming anyone or saying X or Y are guilty. I'm fine with Mitsouko as a mod, she does her job. We totally disagree on the setting but I was suggested to deal with it somewhere else.
I understand you "don't need to know" now. That's probably our major point of disagreement.
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Dec 5, 2011 23:09:52 GMT -5
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Post by Shoju on Dec 6, 2011 0:48:58 GMT -5
Well, if you don't need/like/prefer accurate info, it's a personal preference. No, I didn't have the whole story. It's not like I was lied to, or deceived. I knew that I had talked to Mitsouko about how to go about doing it, and then she ended up mod. Not a hard paralel to draw. I would mind if it didn't have Setsuro or Tomatsu's name attached to it. (no offense intended to the mod staff) I can't POSSIBLY[/i] know everything that goes on here. It just isn't possible. Especially when we value the privacy of clans, and there are multiple RP's, and I'm an RP'er. I have to rely on the other admins, and mods to do their job with a level of autonomy. I don't sit on this forum non stop. I don't live on this forum. This game isn't the only thing in my life. I TRUST that my other admins and mods are going to behave in a respectful manner. If something happens, and they don't, TRUST ME I end up hearing about it, either from other staff, or through PM's from players. I know the core of the issue, and I understand why you brought it up. I have been made aware of the situation, and even pointed Mitsouko toward options for you to pursue that were within the rules of the board. I'm sorry, there isn't much more that can be done. You aren't disagreeing simply with Mitsouko. You are disagreeing with The Moderation Staff, and the rules of the board. I'm sorry that you feel that it isn't the best way to run things (Private Boards, not allowing you to move freely clan to clan). We, and by this I feel confident in saying that I speak for the majority of the staff, feel that it is the best way to run things. We remember the problems that have come up here on the boards because of it. We had to deal with the problems. This includes the people who broke the rules, and the people who felt 'victimized' because of it. Do I think that the way things are set up now is the "best" way to handle it? Absolutely, positively, NOTDo I feel that means that we scrap the private boards, or allow people to move freely from clan to clan, or allow them to have multiple accounts with Private board access? Absolutely, positively, NOTSome of the reasons for the way these issues are handled are due to the technical limitations of the forum software that this place is built with. Some of the reasons for the way these issues are handled are due to the fact that Those of us who are capable of making the changes needed, simply don't have the time to commit to editing the code, editing the permissions, etc... to make it happen. I have a vacation coming up from Christmas to New Years. Maybe I can take a look at fixing some of the things that I would like to at that point. I make no promises. That is the one week a year I'm not chained down to editing web pages, maintaining a database, and I get to focus on my children, and playing in the snow from the time we get up untlt we are too cold to feel our bums from sled riding. I can't guarantee that I won't just simply shut off the web admin portion of my brain for 7 days, and just be a guy with his kids.
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Zeure
Crane Clan
Crane Clan ? Samurai ? Duelist ? Artisan ? Guardian of Metal ? Unique
Posts: 826
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Post by Zeure on Dec 6, 2011 1:02:50 GMT -5
Without taking any sides, can we please just end this topic? It's not conducive, it's not accomplishing anything, and it's not going anywhere positive.
Pretty please, with sugar?
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Yasuki Chad
Crane Clan
Crab Clan
*Crab Clan Courtier *Experienced *Samurai *Daimyo *Hero *Experienced *Commander
Posts: 476
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Post by Yasuki Chad on Dec 6, 2011 1:28:54 GMT -5
Indeed. This topic seems to be going downhill for no real reason or purpose.
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Doji Naetaru
Crane Clan
Doji Daimyo - Courtier - Otomo Twin
Posts: 687
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Post by Doji Naetaru on Dec 6, 2011 4:25:23 GMT -5
Please lock the topic. Enough said...
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