Brotherhood of Shinsei

[the monk Basufu]

So, I did a search to see if someone had brought this up yet. I don't see it anywhere, so hear goes: I'd like to see a Brotherhood of Shinsei "Minor Clan", populated by different Orders. We've already got one type of non-samurai monk in the the Order of the Spider, but it's kind of unfortunate that they're the ONLY full monks in the game. Of course, full implementation might be difficult; many dialogs in the game call the character "samurai" and such. Not sure what the full implications would be. But, request made!

[Hitsuzu]

Guess you're forgetting about us folks...

[the monk Basufu]

No, not forgetting. Dragon, Phoenix, and Crab monk classes are all samurai as well as monks. Only Spider monks are actually just monks, not samurai.

[Kuni Bitmancer]

Feb 7, 2012 21:26:52 GMT -5 the monk Basufu said:

No, not forgetting. Dragon, Phoenix, and Crab monk classes are all samurai as well as monks. Only Spider monks are actually just monks, not samurai.

Ahem. K'mee was also a Nezumi monk. (Of course, not samurai.)

[Tamori Manji]

Feb 7, 2012 21:26:52 GMT -5 the monk Basufu said:

Dragon, Phoenix, and Crab monk classes are all samurai as well as monks.

Yes, you are technically correct. But a monk, even one coming from a Great Clan family, simply doesn't enjoy the same status as a bushi samurai (which is represented by the halved Glory gain). They are samurai, in name, but they function in the same way as the members of the monastic orders (and, as I see it, shugenja should work the same way given their role in rokugani society). The Dragon specifically has a very close relationship with the Brotherhood of Shinsei and its not uncommon for their bushi, when they retire, to either assume the name of Togashi or to join the Brotherhood (and there are many monasteries of the Brotherhood on Dragon lands, especially the Tamori ones. Being common for their shugenja to be even trained in the usage of kiho and practice of martial arts).

That said, considering Jay's recent additions to the game, playing a Brotherhood character may become a reality in the near future.

[Hitsuzu]

Partly true:
A Togashi monk is a monk, the only difference is that he *can* keep his swords (and his attending samurai status) when he is tatooed/says his vows.
But it is roughly the same thing as a shugenja which keeps a katana by his belt : you're still a shugenja, but you cannot refuse a duel, like a proper bushi cannot.
A monk of the Togashi family which keeps his swords is considered a bushi, so by definition he is a samurai. His vows still exist, but he has to respect both ways.
A Togashi monk with no swords is but a monk, only not from the brotherhood.

I sure hope that we'll be able to make characters of the brotherhood, that would be very good indeed (as a kolat-friendly monk, I cannot help but love shinsei and his "fortune favors the mortal men"^^)

[Tamori Manji]

Yes, of course Hitsuzu-san, well pointed out. The monks from the Great Clans do not enjoy the same status as a bushi samurai does but they do share the same obligations (which puts them in a very peculiar situation). A detail about the dueling though, while a samurai cannot refuse a duel (not without the loss of face), he can always nominate a champion to fight in his stead (which is why many shugenja usually walk around with yojimbo).

[Hitsuzu]

yes, true, no samurai can refuse a duel... But you can only choose to be championed if you are not a katana-wielder in usual (which means that if don't wield your katana at the time the duel is issued, like in court or at an inn, you can't choose a champion. You have to fetch your weapon and bet your life on your technique and your grandfather's sword).
So a courtier, a merchant, a shugenja or a monk belonging to the samurai cast and usually carrying a daisho (it has to be a daisho, the simple wakizashi does not count, it's only a symbol of your status) cannot be championed... If you choosed to carry a katana, you have to live (or die) by it.

So be a true monk from the brotherhood or any other sect not belonging to a clan cannot be challenged in a duel, since he is no samurai. he cannot wield swords, whichever his vows, he cannot marry, ...

that seem very restrictive for the game, but maybe it can be done by some good rpying!

[the monk Basufu]

A samurai is a samurai, with a particular place in the Celestial Order. A monk stands outside it. Whatever you might say about the relative prestige of the two jobs, a monk who is also a samurai holds a fundamentally different place in Rokugan from a monk who is not a samurai.

[Tamori Manji]

I agree, of course. Its just that a monk from one of the Clans differs in role from both other monks and his fellow samurai.

[Hitsuzu]

Yes, indeed, we're outside of everything, as always!

But classic brotherhood's monks are not very interested in the active affairs of Rokugan, with the exception of the order of bishamon, more of a militant order... Maybe it is too small a group to take into account in a game like EE, since it is more about clan's relations?

But the appearance of the ronin could change that...

[Jay Luo]

I was originally against adding ronin to the game, because they don't quite "fit" the mold - outside the Celestial Order and with no clan to be loyal to, it is hard to tie them into the Great Clan story lines. But so many people were RP'ing ronin on the forums that I ultimately decided it was necessary to support "going ronin" as a choice.

I am similarly hesitant to add unaligned monks, for much the same reasons. But I could be persuaded if there were enough people who actually wanted to play Brotherhood of Shinsei monks. So far, I believe the majority of players who "became monks" did so as a way to end their character's story (i.e. retirement).

I like adding new material to the game, but it's a lot of work to add a new clan, and if only one or two people want to do it, I probably would get more "bang for buck" working on content that more players would get to see.

[Shoju]

Would it be possible to do this:

Add them, as a "class" of Ronin for now. If, you see that they are taking off, and more people want to play them, take them from "family" of ronin, to separate faction?

[Akodo Keisuke]

+1 to what Shoju said.