NPC usage

[Kitsuki Yuushahime]

To comment generally on what I have posted about in a roleplay thread i've started - are the majority here okay with general use of npcs from other clans as long as they are portrayed fairly - meaning, with pros and cons, good points and flaws. Or should we all be restricted to only using our characters or possibly our characters and npcs from our own clan?

I'll post the section that inspired this thread now:

Jan 25, 2011 21:54:19 GMT -5 Bayushi Senshi said:

(ooc: This is awesome! Can't wait to read more!
I feel it is important to point out though that there are people on this forum who do not take too kindly to utilizing another clan's npcs. I discovered this the hard way. I advise against playing as you recommended

EDIT: Sorry, stupid Ipod touch cut off half of my post. I don't like criticism without giving a suggestion. The rest was thus:

as you recommended, but instead only post for your own clan's npcs. By all means bash the other guys! Just be careful with controlling the other clans members. All I had to do was speak one line that made a clan member NPC from another clan lose face and I drew the ire of many in that clan. So be careful.)

ooc: Very true but though they may be of that clan, this is my thread and I'm going to act as the GM in it. I'm going to shame the Mirumoto too. Everyone is equally going to shame themselves in this. Rest assured. If people don't like me using NPCs from their clan then they should come in here and control them or bring their own characters in to win glory on behalf of their clan. None of the npcs will be doing anything obviously stupid or dishonourable - like randomely attacking people or anything - but I cannot have all the enemies and mooks be power rangers-esque bad guys with masks. No offence to the Scorpion with the masks comment but hopefully you know what I mean - faceless guys. "Some samurai from some clan says "blah"" isn't as involving as saying where he is from and giving him a personality. I understand people get protective of their clans but I could just seppuku yushahime and make a character from their clan and play an idiot on these boards if I was really trying to be an arse and insult a clan. Obviously this isn't my intention and if people react negatively to this thread and the use of npcs from nearly all the clans as mooks - negatively in the way you say others have responded to your use of other clan npcs - then I am sorry but I would call them childish and insecure. Every clan has samurai and peasants that aren't exactly brilliant. People cannot expect a loving portrayal of their clan at all times. I thank you for the warning and the suggestion and I will be careful not to make any non dragon clan npcs seem too bad but I won't compromise a roleplay thread because a minority of people get antsy when a random npc nobody from their clan does one thing wrong or loses face. That's even more silly than the npcs' actions/words that caused the issue. In all honesty I would prefer the whole session didn't overly use NPCs but the shortage of participants and them being primarily from one clan makes it a necessity. Finally - if anyone really objects then make it a rule on the boards or, if you please, just say this rp thread isn't canonical in your world view and didn't happen. It's not all that important afterall - just a game! I won't be posting anything like "and then all the Mantis agreed to murder every Crane courtier for all of time". I've gm-ed enough games to not abuse a setting or creativity. Do expect "and this one npc mantis looked like a fool when the PCs were better than him". It's not a slight on the Mantis clan - i'm sure all clans have much more capable members. It's just some mook taking the fall so actual players on the boards can have fun and look good. At the end of the day I believe a better way of protecting the honour and good image of your clan is to roleplay a character from said clan and be awesome and glorious at it! Simples ^^



So, to continue, I think Senshi has an excellent point and I am going to best address his criticism by asking everyone else here on the boards if they either agree or disagree with my position and if we could please reach a verdict. Once this verdict is reached - whether someone starting a roleplay thread can (as long as they don't horribly abuse the power) portray npc characters from other clans and even make them occassionally look bad (or even good as the case may be!) - can there be no grumbling afterwards? If you all think it's a bad idea I'll restart the sadane thread and ask the original to be deleted and won't portray non-dragon npcs ever. If most of you either trust me or think it's a reasonable or necessary ability to give a thread creator (as I myself believe) then can those who dislike the practice not be too annoyed about it and only complain if there are horrible portrayals of npcs from their clan that go past the line?

Thanks all and please do voice your opinion. Apologies if my original line on this is a little harsh. I myself wouldn't have a problem about a dragon npc being used and made to look silly - the dragon have over 100,000 samurai for instance. I expect some to be idiots!

[Akodo Jereru]

Yushahime (may I call you -san?), the very best thing to support a line of thought is to show the world it works. I have no reason to distrust you, so go on with your ideas. You will hopefully show everyone around that you are a capable roleplayer and game master, and that you really care for the story. I know that you know that a good story pays for whatever happened to an npc, even a principal character (damn, how I enjoyed Matsu Domotai's seppuku's story, it was epic!).
I hope you, and the others involved, make a good story that you all enjoy. I also hope you make a RP thread in which I am involved. Seeing how you think, it will surely be a great experience.

[Kakita Kioshi]

I can see the need to "control" multiple npcs regardless of clan. However, I believe that the need will become less and less when more players become active in the forums. As the dev's have noticed.... their little game has gone viral. I'm sure there will be countless more players joining the forums over the next few months. At that point, I feel that only the creater of an RP thread should control the npcs (with the exception of servants and such) unless they have assigned others to play them. I hope this makes sense.

[Kitsuki Yuushahime]

I can certainly see that side of it Kioshi, very good point. There is a certain danger, even I will concede, to letting anyone control npcs as I'm somewhat doing in the Sadane thread. I am working on the assumption that people will be sensible. If someone posted "and the yasuki started shouting angrily and punched an Otomo and therefore shamed his whole family" I'd probably be a bit miffed myself and would retcon it. A good thread creator should control the thread to tell a good story.
I think the need for even a thread creator to control npcs will be less when there are lots more players. Only if it was a "i need 3-4 other players and that is it and we'll do x" thread would there be a need, otherwise you could probably find someone from a clan to represent npcs from that clan. What would worry me is the possibility of a thread being made to investigate a scorpion or spider scheme or berate a lion or crab for being headstrong and causing an unnecessary battle and then finding nobody wants to help with the story as they feel their clan is insulted ^^;

I therefore think you're spot on by saying a thread creator should have the ability to make decisions on such things and control npcs from all clans if necessary.

[Doji Hyuu]

I'm comfortable with it as long as the NPCs are treated somewhat respectfully. Obviously as you've said, Yushahime-san, in a Sadane game there are going to be winners and losers and generally the PCs will be the winners. As long as the NPCs are treated as putting up a reasonable "fight" I'm OK with it.

Where many (including me) objected to Senshi's use of a Crane NPC (sorry to name and shame you, Senshi-sama) is not so much that he ran the comparatively inconsequential NPC, he ran them in a way to allow his character to score a political point against the Crane, in a way that most Crane players probably wouldn't have conceded, or at least not conceded quite so easily.

I guess the question to ask is, "would a reasonably loyal player of this Clan have a problem with the way I'm portraying this NPC"?

[Bayushi Senshi]

Well since we brought it out in the open I'll go ahead and speak up. I was gonna stay away from it, but well, there it is. It was never my intention to not let the crane cover up for the npc. I felt I left it sufficiently open ended and have no regrets regarding my use of the npc. I intended full and well for another crane to perk up and b!tch slap me around a bit for calling him out in that thread. The end objective being the same: all three of our clans want peace between the lion and crane, and that purpose was served.

Still though I told your envoy (cause I will not name names) that I understood the concerns raised in a pm, and even offered to make an IC apology for how Senshi treated the young courtier(even though I felt that that would be grossly unnecessary).

When all is said and done, I feel that npcs from another clan should be fair game, or else we're going to be stepping on everyone's toes a lot. I can't think of very many players who would want to rp their own clan failing when they are trying to make a political move. Most (if not all of us) feel we have something to gain, myself included.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that no one is perfect, we all make mistakes (I'm a walking living breathing embodiment of that rule) so why then should our npcs? Why can't we take the risk to post a stammering courtier caught off guard, or a butt ugly Bayushi courtier hitting on the dragon, or an Utaku who never learned to ride a horse, falling on their face in battle?

Thats my piece. I wanted to stay away from this thread, and I'm going to try my damnedest to do so, cause its something I can easily get heated about. So if you really feel like you need to say something to me, do it in cbox or in a pm. I may feel up to it. I will abide by whatever decision is reached here, regardless of if I agree or not, I just don't wanna weigh in too much less I turn into a troll.

[Kakita Kyoshi]

I think my concern with NPCs played by the same player who started the thread is that regardless how well intended it might be it feels always somewhat fishy. Maybe just ask a player form another clan if he would like to play a NPC in your thread.

If someone needs a Crane, just PM me and I try to show up in your thread playing a Crane (that will not necessarily the Kakita daimyo I play mostly). I am sure many others would also be be ready to play NPCs from there clan, and some might even have their flaws.