Tonbo Tombe
Dragonfly Clan
Voice of the Dragonfly Shugenja
Posts: 17
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Post by Tonbo Tombe on Jan 24, 2011 20:02:23 GMT -5
Good day to our esteemed assembly. As the Dragonfly representative at this winter’s court I’d first like thank the ever honorable Doji clan for hosting. I am honored also to thank our allies for their petitions and support in rebuilding Kyuden Tonbo after out tragedy. Having such generous support from the great clans is most appreciated, and the resources will allow us to create an embassy for each great clan. With the war behind us, we seek no retribution for the wrong the Lion have done to us, we seek only refuge to rebuild, and that the Lion truly be quenched of the slight felt unresolved of generations past.
In regards to the position of the black scrolls, it is only acceptable the Phoenix hold the scrolls. Their knowledge and libraries are expansive beyond measure, and their expertise proven time and time again. With the honorable Shiba yojimbo protecting them, and the Isawa warding them to security any ill effects, this truly is the best course of action. In seeking the knowledge within the Phoenix can better protect us from our enemies.
With history being that it is, there is some question raised to the assuredness that the scrolls will not be used for ill-intent. I assure you the phoenix are aware of their past, and ever more vigilant because of it. In all clans past mistakes have been made, and reciting them here is not my goal. I have the utmost respect and trust in the phoenix clan and the elemental master in keeping the black scrolls in their guard.
In respect to the Lion and Crane feud, is there any doubt peace should be promoted? In all things we must be honorable, to waste our empire’s right and by turning it again the left is a loss in resources. The imperial magistrates can aid in this peace keeping should our glorious Emperor see it fit, but I feel even this is a strain of resources we don’t require.
The feud between the Crane and Lion should resolve quickly and with as little bloodshed as possible. Any who seek to turn sword for glory I’m sure are welcome on the wall. The crab clan is always welcome of those who seek glory in defense of the Empire.
As a final point of interest, it is the dragonfly’s position that the exploration of the Gaijin lands by the Mantis for trade purposes should be granted. There is much knowledge of the Gaijin lands that can be found through trade, and by studying their economy alone we can learn their strengths and weakness should they ever come to our borders blade in hand. The Mantis are masters of economy, and surely any trade made will be far in favor of the empire.
I thank you for hearing the voice of a minor clan in the grand court of his glorious Emperor. I regret my tardiness in voicing our position, my duties have been much since the rebuilding efforts began.
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Post by taikan on Jan 25, 2011 22:33:04 GMT -5
-bows low-[/b] The Dragonfly and the Scorpion clans have ever been known to have no quarrels, and the stances taken by the esteemed Tonbo have for the most part coincided with that of my clan.
However, with due respect to the Phoenix clan, having long been friends with Isawa Tadaka and traveled extensively in their lands, I would take but a moment of your time to point out that the scrolls have ever been safer in the hands of the Scorpion, and more importantly, the Yogo family. Three points follow.
The first is that the scrolls were guarded for over 1000 years without incident. That the traitorous Yogo Junzo betrayed us all by opening them is surely a stain we will always carry, this is true. Yet, generations upon generations of Yogo warded and concealed the scrolls without any troubles.
The second point is that while I have no doubts as to the honorable intentions of a majority of the Phoenix, they have proven before that the burden of the scrolls is not for them. It was only 4 years that the elemental council possessed the Black Scrolls before they opened them. Even worse, while Junzo opened the scrolls knowingly betraying the empire and dooming it, the Council opened the scrolls for wisdom and knowledge, meaning that they believed it was right to do so.
The third point is that Bayushi was granted stewardship over the scrolls by Hantei himself. Even when the scrolls were given over to Phoenix hands by a traitorous Bayushi, they were never given the duty of looking over them by the Emperor. That the son of heaven has given us the burden of the scrolls is an honor, even if it is a frightful one, and who are we to naysay the words of Hantei?
In the end the point of the matter is that we of the Yogo currently posses the scrolls, and having dealt with the traitorous Junzo, have always guarded the scrolls well. While the Phoenix truly are wise masters of magic, it has been shown before that their thirst for knowledge has led to tragedy. Trust those with no ambition, with a long history of service, and with the blessings of the Hantei line. That is all a Daimyo can ask. -bows deeply-
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Post by Soshi Kiso on Jan 26, 2011 7:17:59 GMT -5
*snaps his fan*
I know I, for one, feel safer knowing the scrolls are guarded by the ever vigilant Yogo family. The fact the Phoenix want the responsibility of guarding the scrolls and openly discuss it, speaks volumes of their ignorance in the matter. Even laying out the facts of Yogo Junzo and the Elemental Council really hold no grounds, as Hantei the 1st gave stewardship to the Scorpion, and no Hantei since has rescinded that command.
So until an emperor decides ownership of this duty should change, I suggest letting sleeping dogs lie, unless your looking at insulting the Hantei line by second guessing their wise decision on the matter.
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Tonbo Tombe
Dragonfly Clan
Voice of the Dragonfly Shugenja
Posts: 17
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Post by Tonbo Tombe on Jan 26, 2011 16:04:47 GMT -5
As this civil discussion seems to fall back on history, there are a few points I wish to raise. The first is that of the original guardianship of the scrolls. Bayushi was so honoured by Shoshiro’s commitment and dedication in return the scroll the guardianship was requested by Bayushi, and Hantei accepted. As precedence it’s only logical to assume that any worthy can request this of the glorious Hantei.
Furthermore, all scrolls were created by Isawa. His knowledge and mastery of magic is still unmatched in the empire, but the phoenix are without a doubt the most knowledgeable. Who better to guard the scrolls than the sons and daughters of the thunder who created them? Indeed it was also by Shiba’s sacrifice that the black scroll were safely brought back into the empire, as we stood between the First Oni and Shoshiro and Sensei. It was the Kami Shiba himself who sacrificed his life for the protection of the empire from the dangers of the black scrolls. Who better to guard them then his children?
The Yogo family has indeed done a most honourable job in guarding these scrolls. Their commitment and and loyally is without question. The changing of hands in protecting these scrolls is not to slight the Yogo family, who, by chance are decents of Pheonix blood, but to put them in the hands of those that can not only protect them with as much zeal, but to safe guard them in a secret location. The phoenix can supply the combined effort of the Shiba and Isawa in protecting these scrolls, both honourable clans well versed in protecting knowledge and artifacts in the empire.
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Toku Hirotomo
Monkey Clan
Bushi Paragon of Compassion Clan Champion Toturi's Army
Posts: 793
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Post by Toku Hirotomo on Jan 26, 2011 17:16:23 GMT -5
I must agree with the wisdom of Yogo-san and Soshi-sama. The fact remains that Glorious Hantei gave the duty of proctecting the Black Scrolls to the Scorpion. This is thier right and thier duty to ensure they are sealed away forever. The fact that a single man among them used the power for ill gain has benifits in it's own way. They will not become idle in thier duty. Glorious Hantei gave the duty of the Black Scrolls to Kami Bayushi-dono, and the actions of one man, however shameful, does not dillute this truth.
On the subject of the Mantis I must respectfully disagree. Trade with Gaijin has been forbidden with all Clans. Hiding behind the wording of trade cannot alter the meaning of the law. We have the duty to protect all of humanity. Our culture is, as the only human culture, more glorious than any other on this world. Why dirty ourselves with the dealings of the Gajin? Does not the fact that Gaijin are at our borders howling like madmen see that there can be no polite dealings with them?
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Post by taikan on Jan 26, 2011 18:50:34 GMT -5
Tonbo-san, having the support of the entire scorpion clan in this, as well as the Monkey... -bows to Kenpashi-, I feel perhaps that I have no need to answer your reply. And yet, I feel I would be remiss not to.
In point, as I have already stated, the Phoenix are a mighty clan, wise sages and in some cases good personal companions. That Shiba-kami and Isawa-dono both gave so much to both the creation of and retrieval of the black scrolls is something we of the Yogo have never forgotten. However... the argument you give Tonbo-san is that because of their own part in their making and recovery, that they are the most worthy to guard and ward them.
-he taps his closed fan on his chin- Do you not find it strange then that Shiba-kami himself, present when Shosuro-dono returned with the scrolls to the court of Hantei-kami, did not speak out against Bayushi-kami's claim? Surely he had faith in his people, just as he did in the decedents and people of Isawa. Nor did Hantei-kami speak for one moment about giving the scrolls to the Isawa-dono. When Bayushi-kami asked for the burden of the scrolls, Hantei-kami had no dispute at all about his claim, not once mentioning the Phoenix clan.
Historically, precedent is quite strong that Shiba-kami nor Isawa-dono would wish the scrolls to be burdened to the Phoenix. Then the issue becomes, what is the precedent for them changing hands? You say that Bayushi-kami requested the guardianship of the scrolls, and that any should be able to ask to do the same, if they prove worthy. Tell me then Tonbo-san, who is as worthy as Bayushi-kami? There are many mighty Isawa shugenja and Shiba bushi among the Phoenix, do not doubt me. Are there not, however, just as many might Yogo shugenja and Bayushi bushi that would guard the scroll?
-narrows his eyes, speaking in a louder stage voice- In fact, all your flowery words of meaning no slight to the Scorpion and the Yogo while praising the worthiness of the Isawa and Shiba speaks to me of doing my family a great dishonor. You say that the Shiba can hide the scrolls in a secret location... have not the Yogo done so for thousands of years? You say that the Phoenix are well versed in protecting knowledge and artifacts... have not the Scorpion protected many things from the empire? You ask, who better to guard the scrolls than the sons and daughters of Shiba and Isawa. By those words, you call the children of Yogo and Bayushi less worthy.
-lowers his tone to a low grumble- Choose your words carefully Tonbo-san. I do not wish you to say things best left unsaid.
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Post by tadakasan on Jan 26, 2011 19:04:01 GMT -5
*holds up a hand* I think it is time I stepped in here; in all due respect Tonbo-san, there is no reason to argue for the Phoenix in this matter. While it is true that there are certain factions in the Empire who do not trust the Scorpion and would like to see the scrolls in our care, there is no justification for such. I do not speak for my entire Clan on this, but many I have spoken to see no reason to undo that which has been precident throughout the history of the Empire, no matter the reasons for that precident. Afterall, tradition is part of what holds the Empire together, is it not?
I appreciate those who show their faith in the Phoenix in the care of such important items; It shows a deep trust that we can only hope to live up to in the future. But it has been shown that we are not perfect, just like the Scorpion, or any other Clan for that matter. The Phoenix do indeed have the resources of the Shiba and Isawa as well as our other families, and that there is much the Phoenix can accomplish when we put our considerable skills together. The same could be said for the Scorpion as well however.
If the Yogo have indeed done an honorable job in protecting the scrolls, certainly no more or less perfect than they were in our care, then is there really reason to change hands in the first place? With all said, I can see none. Once again, you do us an honor by showing your trust in us and our abilities. But I have seen no arguement to trust the Yogo any less in this case. That said, it is best to leave things as they are, for it would forever be a stain upon the Yogo to be shown what amounts to mistrust in this matter. And surely if the Yogo have indeed done a most honorable job, why dishonor them in that way?
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Post by the monk Basufu on Jan 26, 2011 19:21:40 GMT -5
My lords, if you will allow a humble Witch Hunter to speak from his experience, a lifetime of training and guarding against the terrors these scrolls represent, I believe my insight might have some small value. I cannot claim to be an official representative of my clan, family, or organization, so it may be that you find these words unworthy, but be that as it may...
The Black Scrolls represent power, like maho or taint, and thus temptation. Eventually, someone will fall to temptation, sure as the sun rises. It matters not if they rest with the Isawa, the Yogo, or even the Kuni, eventually, so long as they exist, they will be used again. That is why such organizations as the Witch Hunters, Kuroiban, and Inquisitors exist, and will always need to exist. The Scorpion have the strongest claim, and I don't believe anyone could truly claim to be more worthy, given the Yogo's mastery of wards and similar magics. The ability to more effectively use the scrolls, which one could credibly claim the Isawa have above all others, is no recommendation for their keeping it. They are not necessarily more likely than any other to fall to temptation, but such power maximizes the damage when they do.
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Daigotsu Daisuke
Spider Clan
Former Lion Bushi - Newly Initiated Maho Tsukai
Posts: 330
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Post by Daigotsu Daisuke on Feb 2, 2011 10:52:08 GMT -5
I would like to make statement that there was no wrong done to you Tonbo-san, rather it was repayment for egregious error caused against the lion. To call it a wrong done is to bring into question the wise actions of Akodo Ijiasu. Please do not do such a thing, for it would serve to provoke further ire, something neither of our clans i believe want.
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