OOC: The Northern Trade route

[Takezo]

OOC:

Lacking time at the moment to craft an IC post, I present an idea OOC. This is a follow-up to a PM all Dragon and Phoenix will have received from me.

I am sure we all realize that, in the matter of the trade routes, the "job" are well-stacked against a Northern route - benefitting the Dragon and Phoenix lands - by their cost in silver, a commodity far rarer than gold or sake. Moreover, our collective player population is rather less than that of the other pairings, Crane/Lion (middle) and Crab/Scorpion (lower). In short, we are designed to not win the route.

Naturally, this is a challenge.

Now, most people will vote in an undisciplined fashion to "get rings", evenly distributing tokens and canceling their vote. If WE take a disciplined approach to favoring the northern route (I have outlined methods for getting silver in your PMs), we can overcome the dual challenges of low population and rare commodity cost to actually pull an upset, and secure the route for our respective clans. This would be very nice indeed.

If anyone had OOC comments (or seeks clarification), please do ask!

(And yes, I strongly opposed ANY route, but now that it's here, I have IC reasons for wanting it in Dragon lands - to monitor/control/gain leverage and so on... best of a bad outcome.)

I'll try to create an accompanying IC post if I have time tomorrow (or I'll happily participate in one started by another).

[tadakasan]

Well, as I said in the private forums, I have already done the middle trade route to Mastery. And of course I have learned my lesson about voting for more than one thing.

I'll see what I can come up with though. (have 38 silver, so that would certainly be enough for a couple masteries if I wanted).

[Agasha Taeshik]

Since this is OOC, here are my thoughts (and my vote). I do not want this trade route in our lands. This 'control' you seek is not something that interests me, or I would think, the clans in general. Like Tadaka, I've mastered the middle route through Lion/Crane because I truly believe that's the best route. If there is to be (and there should be) monitoring of the trade route, it's the Lion and Crane I trust most to do this. The Rowdy Crab who should expend energies continuing to defend the empire from the Shadowlands, and Shady Scorpions who would abuse the hell out of this route, are obviously my least favorite choice. The Reclusive Dragons and Phoenix would be converted into a haven of misfits. We already have to deal with the Tainted Mines that suddenly popped up, and our focus, thematically, is quite somewhere else. Let the Empire's police forces (Crane/Lion) deal with this route, let us deal with slightly more enlightened aspects of life.

The only benefit I see for the Trade Route in our lands is the increase in commerce that might happen, and the quick gathering of Intel from the North lands. The commerce, I don't concern myself so much about (since, at best, the commerce should be minimally advantageous due to Mantis being the trading, and us just the route, and Mantis being far better at turning the profit, usually at the loss of others, like ourselves). The intel, we can get anyhows, just by paying the Mantis to use Shiba bodyguards, or infiltration.

All in all, I think we are FAR better with the Trade Route being through the Lion/Crane lands, and strongly recommend that all Phoenix and Dragons vote for that route.

[Tamori Koichi]

ooc: I would like to share my input on the matter since I'm one of the main proponents who convinced the Dragon to take this stand. IC I have a lot of reasons for the Northern Trade Route. OOC I think both our clans would want the chance to have a "Dragon/Phoenix Only" job like the one in Kyuden Tonbo. There's no guarantee there will be a job, but no one's to say there won't be.

The concern about the tainted mines affects all, not just Phoenix and Dragon lands. There's one in Lion and Crab lands, with a tainted geisha house in Scorpion lands as well.

Since we both agree that the Crab/Scorpion are unfit, lets just skip them. They're busy with the plague anyway, which in part is because of the Scorpion's failing to watch over the black scrolls. Do we really need to entrust another matter to them?

So we go to the Crane/Lion. We can expect by now that either of the two will gain control of Three Sides River. The one who doesn't gain control will then be busy watching the other afterward. So we probably shouldn't compound them with another task by placing the route through their lands. Since we Dragon/Phoenix have no big storyline happening in our lands, we'll probably be the best clans to handle the Trade Route.

[Takezo]

OOC (well, maybe semi-IC):

Another issue we discussed in the Dragon forum was food security; while no fan of commerce (an attitude I've proclaimed loudly in Court), a Northern trade route would allow us greater commercial access to rice, barley, fish and so on, commodities which are relatively scarce in Dragon (especially) and Phoenix lands.

Indeed, lack of arable land and fishable waters are perhaps our Clans' greatest ongoing threat.

Control of the Northern trade route would give us the leverage to correct that limitation.

I will add that I have historically been opposed to commerce generally because trading towns invariably are accompanied by such immoral institutions as sake houses, geisha houses and the like - we can regulate such towns to make these services impractical, keeping our trading towns and posts honorable.

Your (Agasha Taeshik-sama) point about the intelligence gathering benefit of a Northern trading route was not a point we Dragon had discussed, but it's an excellent one, and if anything adds merit to support for a Northern route.

It is never too late to amend one's vote ;D

[Agasha Taeshik]

Actually, the whole idea of the route is that you wouldn't gain access to that food. Sounds like you want more of a Trade Route to the rest of the Empire (which should already exist), a trade route with Yobanjin would be the food going to them (unlikely, I assume they have food), or more likely, Silks, Silver, and other non-food related items. Items on the Trade Route would be intent to passage-only, though the increase in traffic might mean more income locally for Taverns, Shrines, and other similar accommodations.

It really sounds like you're petitioning for a more local Trade Route, not a Mantis-to-Yobanjin trade route. What you're going to see are an increase in Geisha Houses, Sake Houses, and the like, not more food. That isn't beneficial for our clans with the exception that more traffic means more commercial revenue (usually in areas you're less likely to want to see that revenue expand into).

[Mirumoto Machu]

Except that the trade route has nothing to do with the yobanjin. the trade route is into the burning sands and the city of stories memnaht asalahn.

[Agasha Taeshik]

Errr... my bad, thinking of another post while writing this one. I did mean the Ashalan.

[Takezo]

Ah, I should clarify: I don't advocate the trade route because it would offer direct access to food - in any case, who wants that spicy Ashalan cuisine? - but because jurisdictional control of the trade route would provide leverage to insure access to Rokugani food via other (conventional internal trade) means.

In other words, if the Crane want continued access to those exotic yarns, they need to make sure never to withhold rice from the Dragon or Phoenix (in the case of some future political clash, however unlikely that may seem now).

Or Mantis persimmons, or what-have-you... same principle.

In short, who hosts the trade route enjoys immense political and economic leverage.

"The Spice must flow!" to quote an entirely other literary ouvre ;D

[Agasha Taeshik]

You sure you're in the right Clan, Mantismoto Takezo?

I realize that we'd gain immense political/economic leverage. But at too great a cost, and personally, not really something most Phoenix or Dragon would be interested in me thinks. I mean, our clans don't even have a real Courtier school. Just Asako Loremasters and Kitsuki Magistrates....

Me thinks neither of us will change the other's minds. And that most of us have maxxed the vote we want... There's just no way that, at this point in time, we would win such an unwanted position. Too many of us started out against it, and have raised the Crane/Lion tally in the process. Plus, ALL the Crane/Lion are going to want it and will have voted as much, and likely about half the Crab would have too. I kinda think the whole voting process is over, with little chance that any but 1 of those routes has a chance of winning. Especially since Silver is the least attainable of the requisite items to vote with.