@ Yasuki Chad
"You argue that not only is it acceptable to rebel against a lord you disagree with, but that is actually a samurai's duty to do so. That the entire empire has forgotten the lessons of Bushido makes this crab's heart break."
I haven't advocated rebelling against one's Lord over a disagreement. You must be careful to listen to what is being said and not to hear merely what you wish to hear. I have argued the Hantei does not fulfill his position as Emperor and that he therefore turns it down. I will get to that more below. I therefore believe that Toturi is my correct Lord.
However, I would not go against the basic tenet of Bushido that you must obey your Lord. If Takezo demanded my head, he would have it. If Toturi demanded I assault the capital alone, then I would do so. Whether I liked it or not, whether i disagreed with it or not, whether it was dishonourable or not.
The only possibly exceptions being if one's Lord has gone completely insane e.g. Kill everyone in the court and feed me their blood while i cuddle corpses and talk about my imaginary time in Heaven, if he ordered you to do something completely forbidden by one of his Lords - and therefore a higher Lord commanded you not to (e.g. The Emperor said don't do X and one's Lord said do X) - and finally, if one's Lord is visibly tainted. The insanity and taint are exceptions because arguably under those circumstances, one falls out of the celestial hierarchy and thus ceases to be anyone's Lord. It is akin to them being dead or cast out by the Emperor in the sense that they should no longer be recognised. The difficulty comes in knowing when to apply these rules. Some people may act oddly and this is not insanity. It is hard to define when one is irreversibly insane or dangerously so or just merely... a little unhinged, perhaps temporarily too. As for the taint - as long as this does not reach dangerously high levels and one makes their taint public - thereby alerting the inqusitors and others so that they can check up on them and issue them jade tea, then technically that is acceptable. Only when a person is too far tainted to be in control of themselves anymore or when they exhibit extreme signs of taint, such as mutations, does this cease to be the case.
"1. Why pay the so-called spider any heed? Their aim is to put Daigotsu upon the throne. Whatever choice they make, will be for the purpose of fanning the flames of mistrust and war. A civil war between the Shogun and empire will weaken the empire and the countless dead from such a conflict would only make them stronger."
I'm not paying the Spider heed in character, apart from noticing that they exist and trying to root them out. This thread is a weird ooc/ic mix. My in game character, Hime, would not knowingly communicate with a Spider and wouldn't spend ages pointlessly arguing back and forth with one. However, I do it for fun here. With that said, I agree with your comments. However, we cannot avoid the civil war now. There is no "reconciliation/mediation" option. The Spider have already won. The Empire will be at war soon and will be temporarily weakened by that war, with at least some dead. My hope is that it will become stronger from the experience. Like a class of boys training to be samurai. Some will not make it and pass, some may even die during the training - but those that do are much stronger because of it.
"2. Their is zero evidence the emperor sent assasins after Kaneka and Sezaru. Even considering the animosity with which the Shogun and Emperor hold each other, why would Naseru seek to kill Sezaru. What would the Emperor gain from killing his brothers with NON-SCORPIAN assassins that would not be easier gained from simply asking for their heads. This is beside the fact that the Emperor maintains he sent no such assassins."
I disagree. There is evidence. It is just not conclusive at present. But, one cannot be too idealistic and hope for perfectly conclusive evidence and facts. These rarely exist. We must make do with what we have. I think there is enough circumstantial evidence to form a reasonable opinion and speculate on the matter. The fact is, it is possible Hantei ordered assassinations. It is also possible Kaneka arranged it to make himself look good - but I would not speculate on this matter (for the reasons below). It is also possible another group is responsible and shifting the blame.
I agree it'd be easier to ask for their heads and in fact I believe he should have done so. If he wanted them dead. You cannot say he has no reason to want either of his brothers dead. Perhaps he feared having no children and one of them or their children inheriting the throne. We can speculate on such matters but never be sure. Also, since you are a Hantei supporter, you should realise that openly speculating on the opinion of your Lord is disrespectful and potential grounds for a command of seppuku. I would not have any of the Kitsuki speculating on what I do in the evenings as I am sure Tomatsu would not have any Lion speculate on what he may or may not do with geisha. A Lord's affairs are not to be openly discussed by their retainers. One must have faith in one's Lord. Remember that no matter how much evidence you obtain that they are doing wrong, under the current legal system in Rokugan all they have to do is deny it and you have lost your case. The testimony of a higher ranking samurai overturns that of a lower ranking one. Only another high ranking samurai or a large amount of irrefutable evidence can oppose that.
"3. As for Kaneka himself, why choose this time to plunge the empire into war? A Plauge ravages the south and those who fall to it rise as undead. Bloodspeaker activity vexes nearly every clan, with the north heavily infested.The Yobanjin horde was defeated at Mountain Watch keep, but their army is still very much intact and waiting on the northern steps. If he marched on Toshi Ranbo, the Yobanjin would be unopposed. Even if the rest of his treason made sense, why not wait untill the Yobanjin threat was ended."
I would not speculate on why my Lord has chosen now to make his announcement.
If it were I (see what I did there?) then I would likely have come to the end of my tolerance for the corruption of the Empire and would have had the realisation that something needs to be done. You cannot argue that the Empire has weakened under Hantei. Vile barbarians assault our borders and we are painfully slow to respond to the incursion - thanks to a lack of leadership and the enforcement of a communication system ill designed to meet such threats. The Empire experiences plague - a visible sign of its spiritual corruption - and incidents of blood speakers atrocities and kidnappings abound. The Empire does not respond to these threats fast enough because it's highest authority - which we must wait on before we are allowed to act with our full ability (because it is dishonourable to use too much initiative in combatting problems that may we may not be allowed to or which may be assigned to another to handle) - has not made any official commands. Of course the Clans do the best they can and respond to the threats individually but we need a united whole and that can only be achieved with the consent of the Emperor and his commands. All he would have to do is say a few words and instruct his advisors to handle the rest. But he does not even do that. He is idle. Hantei shirks all his responsibilities. If one's Lord did that, then their Lord would cast them out. Heaven will do the same to Hantei. We are its instrument.
You can see all the danger signs in the Empire - we cannot wait another longer I believe. If we responded with full might against the yobanjin now - something we should have done and could have done IF the Emperor gave even more approval to the effort and actually sent his Champion to assist - then it would allow the negative elements that infect Rokugan to spread and fortify their positions further. Furthermore, you have no idea whether or not Kaneka is already considering this. Perhaps he will leave a suitably large rearguard to handle the matter or he will postpone marching to the capital until the yobanjin are dealt with. Again, I will not speculate - only list possibilities. We cannot know until a decision is made.
"I did not believe Kaneka would be capable of such perfidity. In fact, I still don't. You have expressed the opinion that the Emperor has been tainted. But Kaneka is and has been much more exposed to the forces that could taint, corrupt, and or Replace him. The only gain at this time to start these fights would be too the enemies of the empire. We are already at each others throats over this. Please, step back. Look at this logically."
For the reasons above I disagree. And I expressed an opinion that the Emperor may have been tainted - as you are right that Kaneka may have been - or you or I. However, I disagree with who has been most exposed to corrupt elements. From what I have seen they are spreading faster in our hedonistic courts than at our sites of battle.
Our enemies gain by us waiting or us fighting over the matter. We must look at how they gain least. By putting the matter off they will grow even stronger until the whole Empire risks corruption and injury. By fighting now we can salvage the situation and use our newfound unity and strength to fight against the corruption and end it.
"I see your empire filled with treachery, Senshi-san. You support a usurper and cast baseless accusations at those who are not yet enemies. I would stop this war before it begins but, failing that, I will cast down those who would threaten the Son of Heaven"
While this is addressed to Senshi I will rudely input a few words. One, that i disagree about him being a usurper or that his accusations have been baseless. Also that the Empire Senshi envisions is full of treachery. We are doing our best to ensure it will be an Empire that stays strong and has a system in place to ensure loyalty is deserved. As for your other comment - good luck - you will need it.
*Snidey comment warning* Also, please - as a Yasuki you have no right to lecture anyone on treachery. I believe your Hantei allies - the Crane - even scoff at that. There was no precedent in Rokugani history for swapping Clan loyalties but your ancestors did it anyway. I maintain there are grounds for this matter based partially on exististing precedents or at least their ethos and intention. There were none for your ancestors' action. However, I am sure that none of us would like to delve into that matter again so I will leave it alone. I will also praise your family by saying that I think they have repaid that loss of honour and failure in duty with their following more righteous actions within the Empire. The stain has therefore been wiped clean. I would suggest you do not point out where the stain once was.
Finally, I said I would get to how I see Hantei as declining/abdicating his position. I do not know if he did this consciously or unconsciously but his lack of actions or unforgiveable sloth in responding and thus him failing in fulfilling his duty of care to protect the Empire are some basic reasons for this. Honestly I believe I have gone into this enough at length in previous posts so instead ask you to read those rather than have my repeat myself and make this post any longer than it already is.
@ Tamori Koichi
"If I might add to the most esteemed Yasuki daimyo's words to the Kitsuki daimyo, and I would like to extend it all the Dragon supporting the Shogun.
Did we not at our last clan meeting reach a consensus that we would investigate first the truth about the assassination attempts first before acting? But now, in the instant that Kaneka started this civil war, you join him without a moment's hesitation. Is this the new Kitsuki method? Did all that talk about evidence, loyalty and honor just vanish?"
Takezo has addressed this partially already but I will say that there is evidence. Just nothing concrete yet - in support of either side. Investigations continue. However, there is irrefutable proof of the Empire's growing wounds and increasing spiritual corruption. Who to support is another matter. So while evidence about the assassinations is relevant, it does not consist of all that should be considered when one thinks about who to support. I wish it were that simple in fact. The fact of the matter is that Kaneka, now Toturi, has played his hand and made his announcement. We cannot delay responding to it and be weak. That would be behaving as Hantei does and would surely damage the Empire further.
So no, our method has not changed and neither have our beliefs in evidence, loyalty and honour. Our actions must nonetheless be guided by our own understanding of the Empire, it's laws and bushido and what evidence we have available. When some evidence, even circumstantial, is obtained then that is enough to arrest a suspect. Definitive evidence can be obtained in time. Better still, a confession may be gained from the suspect. Perhaps Hantei, in time, will confess? If our suspect is wrong and evidence emerges that it is the work of another then that other will be persecuted instead. Nonetheless efforts against Hantei would continue as there are additional grounds for those that aren't about assassinations.
@ Mirumoto Takezo
"Indeed we did, Tamori-san.
However, events accelerated to a point which demanded immediate action - history does not always await the results of investigation or mediation.
A samurai lives his life in such a way that, when the time comes, he acts correctly without thought - the "function" of honor, if you will"
Your words are wise as always my Lord. Sometimes action is more important than words. Even we Kitsuki acknowledge this, though we do not all like being forced into action before we have had the time to really disect the situation. Sadly, reality does not care. If one attacks you in the street then you must rely on instinct to strike them, rather than processing the attack and trying to respond thoughtfully. You are therefore absolutely right on this - we should act instinctively to support who we believe is right and pray that our way of living and what we have been taught is correct.
@ Bayushi Haruka
Swing your blades and then come to me about who is right and who is wrong.
*Fun snidey comment again* I think you'll find as a Kakita he won't swing his blades. Just his katana. A shame they continue to neglect even the basics of Mirumoto teachings