Yasuki Chad
Crane Clan
Crab Clan
*Crab Clan Courtier *Experienced *Samurai *Daimyo *Hero *Experienced *Commander
Posts: 476
|
Post by Yasuki Chad on Jun 18, 2011 0:10:53 GMT -5
Hantai the 40th is Emperor of Rokugan and I will not betray my Honor or my Oaths to serve his traitorous brother. Kaneka swore the same as we did, to serve Empire and Emperor. He has cast his honor aside for personal glory and is no better then ronin now, a life he was once used too as I understand it. I do not believe Naseru ever desired Kaneka dead. If he truly wished it, he'd only need to ask. I will not Support a man who would use his fame to start a Civil war. That is not something I can condone.
(edit:grammer)
|
|
Ojii
Dragon Clan
RONIN - Former Dragon Clan Sensei
Posts: 375
|
Post by Ojii on Jun 18, 2011 9:16:41 GMT -5
While checking who side with who, i just saw that both my "non-friend" Shoju and Tadaka sided with Hentei 40... a very good measure of the man on the throne. He has very nice "non lethal" and friendly supporters :-) :-) :-)
|
|
|
Post by Shoju on Jun 18, 2011 10:02:09 GMT -5
Oh, I have very very very big plans for the esteemed Hantei.
Remember, I sent a courtier with an Armistice to IMperial Court seeking a cessation of violence between the shadowlands and the empire.
|
|
Kitsuki Yuushahime
Dragon Clan
This person sometimes posts things that are tl;dr
Courtier Magistrate Ambassador Daimyo
Posts: 1,140
|
Post by Kitsuki Yuushahime on Jun 18, 2011 12:17:44 GMT -5
Other Emperors have been cast away too Tadaka. Sometimes over 1000 years of tradition is meaningless when faced with something more important. Do you not think Heaven will decide this? Or perhaps you don't believe in it, hmm?
|
|
|
Post by Mirumoto Keitaro on Jun 18, 2011 13:01:23 GMT -5
Well, clearly whoever wins this dispute is the one favored by Heaven. Let us not fret over who the Fortunes choose to bestow favor, but seek that which is righteous to do.
I support the Shogun!
|
|
|
Post by Shoju on Jun 18, 2011 13:04:32 GMT -5
I resent the idea that I'm just some bloodspeaker who wants to tear the empire down. Quite the contrary actually. I'm only seeking a place in the Empire proper. Tear it down? Never. I have warred with the Yobanjin who wished to tear this empire asunder.
If I would have wanted this Empire destroyed, I would have sided with them. No, I seek to legitimize those who follow my lord, and I will use every advantage I have to do so. I will be the Emperor's Iron Fist.
While those who have been charged with the defense of the empire prepare to battle each other, I choose to stand next to Hantei the 40th, and recognize him as the true Son of Heaven, and all those who stand against him, are enemies.
You spew hatred and venom and words at the Spider because you do not understand them. You see taint, and maho, and immediately jump to the wrong conclusion. This path is the only path left for legitimization of the Spider.
|
|
Kakita Hiroshi
Crane Clan
* Duelist * Courtier * Magistrate * Warrior Poet *
Posts: 285
|
Post by Kakita Hiroshi on Jun 18, 2011 15:01:23 GMT -5
I never thought I would agree with a Scorpion, but Tadaka-sama speaks the truth. The Shogun sworn to protect the Empire, and now he turns against it, after a great victory against the Yobanjin? This is an act of an insane person, or a person that's been lied to.
Let us not forget that a victory against the Yobanjin is a battle won, to be sure, but not a war ended to our favor. Should we turn against each other, further weakened by plague, the Yobanjin threat might rear its barbarian head again.
And to see the Dragon, who always have been loyal to the Empire, turn against he who sits on the throne? To see a Spider do, what all of us should, and not all decide to? These are strange and evil times indeed.
|
|
Yasuki Chad
Crane Clan
Crab Clan
*Crab Clan Courtier *Experienced *Samurai *Daimyo *Hero *Experienced *Commander
Posts: 476
|
Post by Yasuki Chad on Jun 18, 2011 16:00:58 GMT -5
You are correct, Kakita-san.
|
|
Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
|
Post by Asahina Yukihime on Jun 18, 2011 16:06:10 GMT -5
*Asahina bows with deep courtesy and her words are soft, almost whispered. She sure doesn't have a big contribution on the issue but feels like it's her duty to talk what a shugenja could talk*
I'm only a humble keeper of a small fane, not a notorious shugenja or well traveled samurai, and I'm not aware of all the political issues going on away from my lands but... ancient prophecies sometimes have a reason to be. The stars at the sky and the fortunes had told us long ago that the end of Hantei's dynasty won't happen without a price.
Undoing what the kamis had decided to do may unleash war or even worse times upon the Empire.
|
|
Kitsuki Yuushahime
Dragon Clan
This person sometimes posts things that are tl;dr
Courtier Magistrate Ambassador Daimyo
Posts: 1,140
|
Post by Kitsuki Yuushahime on Jun 18, 2011 16:24:35 GMT -5
Well Tadaka, perhaps we can add "does not act as a worthy emperor" to the list of reasons to rightfully depose an Emperor - alongside insanity and being tainted as you rightly point out.
Perhaps in the years to come the masses, and yourself, will realise how right that as a reason is - when you see how strong and orderly the Empire becomes.
|
|
|
Post by bodhibloodwave on Jun 18, 2011 17:30:14 GMT -5
My Apologies Kitsuki Yuushahime, but how do you define a 'worthy Emperor' if I may ask? I would not be surprised if there are as many defintitions as there are Samurai in the Empire.
And what exactly makes Kaneka a "worthy" Emperor for that matter? We are speaking of a man who declares samurai his enemies simply for advocating caution. A man who refuses to heed the advice of people who disagree with him. A man who disgraces himself, his oaths and position by winning a battle then declaring that the renouncing of his claim as Emperor, to let his brother ascend to the throne was a lie. All while the war rages on.
No, I personally have a very hard time seeing Kaneka as anything close to a 'worthy emperor'
|
|
Kitsuki Yuushahime
Dragon Clan
This person sometimes posts things that are tl;dr
Courtier Magistrate Ambassador Daimyo
Posts: 1,140
|
Post by Kitsuki Yuushahime on Jun 18, 2011 17:48:14 GMT -5
Apologise all you like but I have no time to be polite with those who are tained. I will simply say what makes one insane? Again, many definitions exist. Let us not delve into semantics and interpretation. This is not a matter for courtly debate. I only seek to remind others that this is not black and white, but a grey area. While opponents of Kaneka will claim that any action against the Emperor is treason, I instead suggest that there are always exceptions and that the list of exceptions is not a closed list.
You do not see Kaneka as worthy and others do. If you believe that so many in Rokugan are wrong then you would advocate wiping out everyone you would call a traitor. We only advocate that Hantei steps down and Kaneka takes his place. Of course a Spider would love to see a civil war as an excuse to label what now appears to be more than half the great clans as traitors and that they should be culled. No doubt you will also suggest then that the Spider form the personal guard of the Emperor or some such and are officially accepted into the Empire.
That any of you is even allowed to fight for Hantei is proof enough for me of his lack of suitability to be Emperor. Perhaps he is even tainted? Then we would have nothing to debate - that isn't something that requires interpretation and there is a very good precedent for it being grounds for removal.
|
|
|
Post by bodhibloodwave on Jun 18, 2011 18:04:09 GMT -5
So what you are saying is that if a number of us where to declare our support for Kaneka that would instantly be proof of him being unsuitable as a Emperor because well, he allows spiders to support him in his claim to become emperor, even tho he renounced all such claims?
You are also wrong on that we want a civil war, I atleast do NOT want a civil war since the destruction and schism it causes can not be afforded at a time we are at war with outside forces. Nor would I want other samurai executed simply for disagreeing with the son of heaven, after all I was one of those who argued for mercy toward our Yobanjin captives after the most recent battle.
And who has claimed anybody is insane Kitsuki, for being of a family that value evidence and facts you seem quite eager to rush to judgment of others
|
|
Kitsuki Yuushahime
Dragon Clan
This person sometimes posts things that are tl;dr
Courtier Magistrate Ambassador Daimyo
Posts: 1,140
|
Post by Kitsuki Yuushahime on Jun 18, 2011 18:10:21 GMT -5
I'd be a lot more wary of Kaneka if a bunch of Spider started supporting him and a hell of a lot more wary if they started hanging out with him, yes.
And saying one thing and actually not meaning it at all is a fairly common thing amongst certain groups *coughs* tainted *coughs* so I will continue to believe you do actually want a prolonged civil war.
I didn't claim anyone was insane. I was pointing back to insanity as a reason to depose the Emperor and highlighting that insanity, like worthiness, is open to interpretation but it does exist as a precedent. And yes, we Kitsuki are quick to judge. We have a lot of experience in just looking at someone and sizing up what they are like. The Kitsuki teach more than how to gather evidence. It's why we are the courtiers of the Dragon. I personally am very eager to judge Spider members though ^_^
|
|
|
Post by bodhibloodwave on Jun 18, 2011 18:22:15 GMT -5
Yet your own words prove that you do not judge based on the facts of the matter but rather on what you think to be true.
Also unless my memory is wrong you are trained as a courtier which combined with your family should make you quite good at detecting if somebody is sincere in their words or deceitful, so I will ask for the minor courtesy of atleast judging me by my own words rather then declare me a liar just because I am tainted.
|
|