Shosuro Aroru
Scorpion Clan
Scorpion Clan Ninja * Duelist
Posts: 625
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Post by Shosuro Aroru on Jul 27, 2011 11:45:23 GMT -5
...I disagree. I don't see it happening that someone win's a competition, seppuku's and then goes on to win another competition because of that seppuku. There will always be people who didn't commit seppuku who will have a higher skill in that area /more pooled points, unless it's a really obscure competition. Then there's also the item factor, since some items that provide bonuses aren't even available anymore.
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Enishi
Dragon Clan
Ninja * shadow * tattooed * Mad prophet of Nothing
Posts: 254
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Post by Enishi on Jul 27, 2011 11:46:28 GMT -5
I am 100% confident that someone could start leveling today, pool points, and with good planning win a competition at winter court, then turn around, seppuku, and do the same in 6-7 months at another competition. I don't think so at all, because unless the competition uses a skill that's never been use for an earlier competition, you'll be competing with people that have already invested vast amounts of points in said skill. That's just like saying someone could create a shugenja today, pool points for spellcraft and beat Sprinkles or Koichi in a spellcraft competition six months from now. The thing is, all the point that player could pool and invest, Sprinkles and Koichi have already invested. They probably won't be chasing any other skill since they've pretty much lost all opportunities to get top 10 in another skill by investing such a massive amount of skill points. So the likeliest event is that from now on and until they seppukku, they will lead all spellcraft contests ever. Sprinkles' solution of massively higher requirements is the only way I see to change that. For know, I can beat a requirement of 60 for pretty much any skill just with my gear, whereas I had to invest a lot of points to get to Battle 200 (especially since it's not a class skill for me).
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Post by sprinkles on Jul 27, 2011 12:17:38 GMT -5
Yay peoples like my idea!
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Post by Shoju on Jul 27, 2011 12:21:34 GMT -5
I think people are discounting a couple of things here, so I want to get some information.
Sprinkles: How many points had you saved heading into this tournament? Did you seppuku during Winter Court Or After? What was your spellcraft at when you started spending points?
I want to illustrate a point here, because I firmly believe it is possible.
I'm almost positive I sep'd after Sprinkles, and leveled ahead of him. and want to do a little math.
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Post by sprinkles on Jul 27, 2011 12:25:28 GMT -5
360 points I seppukued durning Winter Court. Spellcraft was 20
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Post by Mirumoto Asano on Jul 27, 2011 12:30:12 GMT -5
Won't Sprinkles proposal do exactly that which you try to avoid. If there will be missions with for example 200 skill req. everybody will put cp's evenly to get more fate, people that already put majority of points in one skill will either commit seppuku or level slower. On tournaments "fresh" characters that specialise will have better chance to win doing only low skill req missions.
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Post by sprinkles on Jul 27, 2011 12:35:36 GMT -5
Asano you can't stop it completely without limiting players greatly. But you can make it less desirable to do so.
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Post by Shoju on Jul 27, 2011 12:49:41 GMT -5
Ok.
Sprinkles Seppuku'd while Winter Court was going on, and was ~128 7 months later. I sep'd during the first 2 weeks of Mountain Watch Keep. Approximately 1 month later than him. I was level 170 heading into the tournament.
Sprinkles saved 360 points, or 90 levels of points, meaning that sprinkles was about level 38 when he stopped spending points.
Now, doing some math here, 170-38 = 132 levels of not spending points had I done the same thing. That means 528 skill points. That means 1056 to add to a class skill.
Have we seen anyone ROLL 1k in a skill yet? No, I'm almost positive we haven't (the battle competition is what I'm fuzzy on.... I don't think he as at 1k....) Yuushahime was high courtier at a roll of 699 in the Scorpion Competition. The Crane that won the battle competition was around 800 correct? Koichi leads the spellcraft competition with 845.
That means, to even touch my Skill points, (1076 = 1056 from points + 20 prior) Koichi would need 231 more points added to his total ROLL. in just skill points, that is 116 skill points, another 30 levels, which means he would be level 220. For simplicity's sake, Assume that there are no knew items between now and then for spellcraft. His dice roll wont change much.
leveling takes longer as you level up. I'm not sure how fast Koichi is turning levels, but 18 levels behind him, and not wasting fate when I'm awake (6a - midnight) I'm leveling 1 per 3 days right now. I'm not saying that he couldn't stay ahead of me, but it would be incredibly difficult. Especially considering, that he has the 1st or 2nd highest roll of any of the competitions right now, its not like everyone would be that high.
So yes. Someone who absolutely pushed it, could sep now, and in 6 months, which will be the tail end of winter court, be able to compete and win a competition at winter court. Especially if you factor in that they know what they are doing, plan out rings / jobs / etc... I didn't level to 170 because ZOMG Jay is going to do a Competition, and I have to win!. I just leveled. The beauty of the FB game is that it doesn't take long to play.
Yes, I will admit that this isn't going to "take over" and "everyone will do it". That doesn't change the fact that this type of behavior would hurt the game.
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Enishi
Dragon Clan
Ninja * shadow * tattooed * Mad prophet of Nothing
Posts: 254
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Post by Enishi on Jul 27, 2011 12:59:46 GMT -5
Well, to get the 231 points needed, Koichi would need to gain 29 levels. If it takes you 6 months of single-mindedly doing this kind of stuff, I don't think 6 months would be that difficult to get 29 levels in fact. That's one level every 6th day. Although you level slower and slower with time, I don't think it would get that slow. I may be wrong though.
Plus, what you're saying also means someone that only ever raises their Spellcraft should never be able to catch up to someone who invests in other things, even after a 6-month-grind. Wouldn't the contrary be more logical?
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Post by scorpionshadow on Jul 27, 2011 13:03:02 GMT -5
Shoju-san, you made me feel so dumb right now...
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Post by Shoju on Jul 27, 2011 13:17:54 GMT -5
Well, to get the 231 points needed, Koichi would need to gain 29 levels. If it takes you 6 months of single-mindedly doing this kind of stuff, I don't think 6 months would be that difficult to get 29 levels in fact. That's one level every 6th day. Although you level slower and slower with time, I don't think it would get that slow. I may be wrong though. 1 level every 6th day by the time you reach the 200's doesn't seem to terribly off, and that's also assuming that the person who does this doesn't find a way to improve on my leveling speed. If you want an example of someone who did it faster than myself, look at Goju Karteru. He seppuku'd within days of Sprinkles from the sounds of it and is level 198.... I know he levels faster than myself, and I know that he put a LOT of thought into his leveling path. I don't follow what you mean here. I'm not saying that at all. Do you mean that this is what I want? Absolutely NOT. I don't care if you have spellcraft of 9000 and not a single skill point invested anywhere else. My main goal in this is to find a way to combat the idea of point pooling. Because with my example, I could start out as a Unicorn bushi, and then get to winter court with all those points in my pocket, decide which clan I want to win the contest, marry into them, Change from Bushi to Courtier to Shugenja based on what base skills I need, and then drop my pooled points down to get it done. EDIT: Don't feel dumb Hiromitsu. I do these kinds of puzzles /computations for fun.
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Enishi
Dragon Clan
Ninja * shadow * tattooed * Mad prophet of Nothing
Posts: 254
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Post by Enishi on Jul 27, 2011 13:37:04 GMT -5
I don't follow what you mean here. I'm not saying that at all. Well, it seems to me you are. Basically, you're describing a situation where a character keeps absolutely all his skill points for one single skill and, after some time, gets better at that skill than someone else. The reason this happens is because that person is a complete monomaniac whereas the other creates a more balanced character. What's really wrong here? I should add I'm not really benefiting from the current situation. Just from in-clan discussion, I know I would be outskilled in all my class skills I just don't see the system problem you're getting at. This is of course just my opinion. EDIT: scratch that, I get what you're saying about the possibility of choosing your "new" skill of choice rather than planning it from the start. Somehow I'm not quite convinced this is really where the problem lies with contests, but you have a point there.
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Shosuro Aroru
Scorpion Clan
Scorpion Clan Ninja * Duelist
Posts: 625
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Post by Shosuro Aroru on Jul 27, 2011 14:33:32 GMT -5
...The math is a little off, since they wouldn't be able to level that quickly without putting points in other skills. It's impossible to have 0 skill in everything but one skill and level quickly. You can say items help, but you needed levels in a skill to do the jobs that dropped the items. Once again though, even if it's possible to be done now, it won't be possible later. As people continue to play without killing themselves, they will amass points. If they choose to pool or focus them on a skill they will gather more points. There is a finite limit to how many points you can amass in between contests, even if it's over 1000 in a class skill. Given that, the people who keep playing will have more skill points than the quick levelers and it's their choice whether they want to dump into a skill for a contest. I don't want to see this game changed from people jumping at shadows or worried about possibilities. It's possible that I could learn the code for facebook and this game and hack into it, but it's not likely. If Jay wants to add new things to make people want to spend points(not just upjump the requirements of already planned/existing jobs), that sounds like a perfectly reasonable idea. I would love a job that has 200 requirement, but drops a bunch of good items with every click. Heck, I'm farming the yasuki negotiate mission right now and it's low cost, low requirement with a decent drop rate on rice, silk, gold.
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Post by tadakasan on Jul 27, 2011 14:48:36 GMT -5
Well, my other thought is if you spend 6 months saving points and manage to win a contest, perhaps you deserve to win. I can't see another way a new character could do so. And if you're saying that, you're pretty much saying anyone newer to the game should pretty much not even try at contests. As 2 koku
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Post by Shoju on Jul 27, 2011 14:53:15 GMT -5
The math isn't off. I'm never said that you would have 0's in other skills. I based all my calculations off of putting no skill points to use after level 38, an approximation based on when sprinkles stopped using his skill points, meaning the math is sound, and yes, It's very possible.
I just showed it is possible to reach 1k skill points in a skill. Something no one has ROLLED. The Closest we have seen to that is still 29-30 levels off of being obtained on a roll. To get to that on base skills, the highest skill so far would need 100-140 more skill points, to cover for the 10k10 plus gear.
I just showed that I was not even the fastest leveler out there, meaning that 1k is a conservative estimate.
It's not jumping at shadows, I'm sorry that you don't see the ramifications of it, but they are right there. If I weren't more than a little attached to my current character I would do it.
You are right. There is a finite amount, as in... it's not infinite. Plan a time for the next contest, and then find the average fate to xp ratio for the entire game. Multiple that ratio by the number of minutes between now and the next competition, look at the XP chart and find out what level it is, and multiply by 4. That will get you pretty close.
Comparing this to hacking makes little sense. I see what you are trying to say, but it doesn't make for a good argument, chiefly from 1 being acceptable in game terms, and the other a crime punishable by jail time in the country within which you live. I see you are trying to make this sound like a long shot. That it can't happen. That its an over reaction. But, that is an awfully weak comparison.
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