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Post by Daigotsu Karteru on Aug 15, 2011 13:49:56 GMT -5
Some of us are playing Ninja / Shugenja / Courtier with over 100 Battle
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Aug 15, 2011 14:13:20 GMT -5
I've got to agree with Shoju-san. Not only are other skills very important for battles, but the game's theme, to which Alesha-san alluded, changes depending on the Clan you play (or the kind of army you command). And this is true both to the P&P RPG and the CCG. Thus, limiting the skills that affect a battle would be untrue to the theme of the game.
Besides, despite contests of Iaijutsu and Kenjutsu being more common, duels between enemy heroes/commanders can also be fought with Magic, Archery or Martial Arts. And different Clans would employ different tactics in the battlefield that might change with the kind of battlefield, the type of army they command and the manner in which they want to wage war. So, I don't think it would be accurate to generalize conflicts in Rokugan based on the views one or two Clans have about war.
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Toku Hirotomo
Monkey Clan
Bushi Paragon of Compassion Clan Champion Toturi's Army
Posts: 793
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Post by Toku Hirotomo on Aug 15, 2011 14:26:03 GMT -5
Whelp, I'm the only Monkey player on EE. The rest jumped ship or don't play anymore. I am one of those that feel strongly enough for Toturi III. I'd like a vote for the Monkey. I've already formed contingencies if the battle goes poorly.
So, Jay-sama. If you choose to let us declare, I'd love the chance. If not, well it's your game and I won't bitch. Thanks for the hard work, I'm loving this game.
The thing about competitions is that some Clans have a monopoly on certain skills. The Crane will always win art, Mantis is Kyujutsu, ect. If there was a competition for something like sailing, A Kasuga, Yatsuki, or Mantis (unless they're a Kitsune) would win. So it would be harder to make a good contest that most can do.
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Post by Shoju on Aug 15, 2011 14:31:01 GMT -5
I agree with you about sailing, but I would disagree with you about art. It could be entirely possible for a Tsi, or Kaiu, or even a spider ninja to win an art competition While Crane is the logical choice for art, there are others who could make a good showing.
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Toku Hirotomo
Monkey Clan
Bushi Paragon of Compassion Clan Champion Toturi's Army
Posts: 793
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Post by Toku Hirotomo on Aug 15, 2011 14:42:18 GMT -5
I forgot about them. Gomen, Oriole, and Crab-sans. Spider ninja? Really? They get art?
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Post by Shoju on Aug 15, 2011 14:43:53 GMT -5
No, Spider Ninjas don't have art.
But they marry into clans, and steal their skills, and then come home.
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Post by Mirumoto Shigekazu on Aug 15, 2011 15:09:50 GMT -5
Full list of schools covering each skill. That is why Iaijutsu and Battle contest are very boring for most people in the Empire and Kenjutsu or Athletics competition may be enjoyable for all bushi.
ATHLETICS Hida Bushi Toritaka Bushi Kakita Duelist Daidoji Yojimbo Mirumoto Bushi Togashi Monk Akodo Bushi Matsu Berserker Yoritomi Bushi Shiba Yojimbo Bayushi Bushi Moto Bushi Utaku Battle Maiden Ichiro bushi Usagi Bushi Toku Bushi Tsi Smith Morito Bushi Suzume Bushi Daigotsu Bushi
COURAGE Hida Bushi Hiruma Scout Togashi Monk Akodo Bushi Kitsu Shugenja Matsu Berserker Ikoma Historian Yoritomi Bushi Horiuchi Shugenja Utaku Battle Maiden Ichiro bushi Toku Bushi
INTIMIDATION Matsu Berserker Yoritomo Courtier Moto Bushi Tsi Smith Daigotsu Bushi Kasuga smuggler
SHADOWLANDS Hida Bushi Kuni Shugenja Hiruma Scout Kaiu Engineer Yasuki Merchant Toritaka Bushi Daigotsu Bushi Chuda Shugenja Daigotsu Courtier Goju Ninja
ART Kaiu Engineer Doji Courtier Kakita Duelist Daidoji Yojimbo Asahina Shugenja Isawa Shugenja Tsi Smith Suzume Bushi
COURTIER Yasuki Merchant Doji Courtier Kitsuki Investigator Ikoma Historian Yoritomo Courtier Kitsune Shugenja Asako Loremaster Bayushi Bushi Bayushi Courtier Ide Emissary Tonbo Shugenja Daigotsu Courtier Kasuga smuggler
ETIQUETTE Yasuki Merchant Doji Courtier Asahina Shugenja Kitsuki Investigator Ikoma Historian Yoritomo Courtier Asako Loremaster Bayushi Courtier Ide Emissary Komori Shugenja Tonbo Shugenja Daigotsu Courtier
SEDUCTION Soshi Shugenja Bayushi Courtier Shosuro Shinobi Daigotsu Courtier
HORSEMANSHIP Moto Bushi Iuchi Shugenja Horiuchi Shugenja Utaku Battle Maiden Ide Emissary Shinjo Scout Morito Bushi
LORE Kuni Shugenja Kaiu Engineer Tamori Shugenja Kitsu Shugenja Ikoma Historian Moshi Shugenja Isawa Shugenja Agasha Shugenja Shiba Yojimbo Yogo Shugenja Asako Loremaster Iuchi Shugenja Suzume Bushi
KENJUTSU Hida Bushi Toritaka Bushi Kakita Duelist Daidoji Yojimbo Mirumoto Bushi Tamori Shugenja Akodo Bushi Matsu Berserker Yoritomi Bushi Shiba Yojimbo Bayushi Bushi Moto Bushi Utaku Battle Maiden Ichiro bushi Usagi Bushi Toku Bushi Tsi Smith Morito Bushi Suzume Bushi Daigotsu Bushi
STEALTH Hiruma Scout Tsuruchi Archer Bayushi Bushi Soshi Shugenja Yogo Shugenja Bayushi Courtier Shosuro Shinobi Shinjo Scout Chuda Shugenja Goju Ninja Kasuga smuggler
BATTLE Kaiu Engineer Daidoji Yojimbo Akodo Bushi Ichiro bushi
HUNTING Hiruma Scout Toritaka Bushi Kitsune Shugenja Tsuruchi Archer Agasha Shugenja Shosuro Shinobi Shinjo Scout Usagi Bushi Morito Bushi Goju Ninja
INVESTIGATION Kitsuki Investigator Shosuro Shinobi Usagi Bushi Toku Bushi Goju Ninja
SAILING Yasuki Merchant Yoritomi Bushi Yoritomo Courtier Moshi Shugenja Tsuruchi Archer Komori Shugenja Kasuga smuggler
IAIJUTSU Kakita Duelist Mirumoto Bushi Ide Emissary
KYUJUTSU Tsuruchi Archer Shinjo Scout
MEDITATION Kuni Shugenja Doji Courtier Asahina Shugenja Mirumoto Bushi Tamori Shugenja Togashi Monk Kitsuki Investigator Kitsu Shugenja Moshi Shugenja Kitsune Shugenja Isawa Shugenja Agasha Shugenja Shiba Yojimbo Asako Loremaster Soshi Shugenja Yogo Shugenja Iuchi Shugenja Horiuchi Shugenja Komori Shugenja Tonbo Shugenja Chuda Shugenja
SPELLCRAFT Kuni Shugenja Asahina Shugenja Tamori Shugenja Togashi Monk Kitsu Shugenja Moshi Shugenja Kitsune Shugenja Isawa Shugenja Agasha Shugenja Soshi Shugenja Yogo Shugenja Iuchi Shugenja Horiuchi Shugenja Komori Shugenja Tonbo Shugenja Chuda Shugenja
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Post by Soshi Kiso on Aug 15, 2011 15:50:10 GMT -5
Speaking of sailing, where are the mantis in the assaults?
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Daigotsu Daisuke
Spider Clan
Former Lion Bushi - Newly Initiated Maho Tsukai
Posts: 330
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Post by Daigotsu Daisuke on Aug 15, 2011 15:53:08 GMT -5
i personally find it a little degrading that when i create a character meant for war, one whose battle skill is high (dudes thats all i put my points in) and when we have been told/understand that actual battles depend on ones battle score, it gets a little upsetting when everyone else says "lets not make battle the main thing battles are based off of." Im sorry you didn't spend your points in battle but tough titties man. Iajutsu as far as i understood it was more direct dueling without the chaos of war or other combat going on, where as kenjutsu is different. Sorry if you can't compete but just like spellcasting, if you dont put your points in casting spells than you/your team cant caste freakin spells. I find it frustrating that either the lion aren't diverse enough to compete in the war (which is amusing as they are a clan solely dedicated to war) or people can't stop bitching cause they can't get an edge on how the war is decided. personally i feel jay should continue doing what hes doing. Complaining that art competitions are boring during winter court is almost as obnoxious as complaining about kenjutsu competitions during a war. Hes a gm hes going to make things as fair as possible around the circumstances.
Just my two cents.
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Yasuki Chad
Crane Clan
Crab Clan
*Crab Clan Courtier *Experienced *Samurai *Daimyo *Hero *Experienced *Commander
Posts: 476
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Post by Yasuki Chad on Aug 15, 2011 16:48:23 GMT -5
Sadly I agree With Akodo Jin. The Battle skill SHOULD have a disporportinal effect on a Battle. In a war, the Ability to command troops effectively SHOULD trump ones personal prowess.
Of course, this from a Yasuki Merchant with 118 battle skill.
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Post by Mirumoto Shigekazu on Aug 15, 2011 17:33:12 GMT -5
Jin-san, I have a feeling that you haven't read my message correctly or you refering to someone else, but I cannot fid someone else who said that some skill competitions are boring. But I was saying about iaijutsu, not kenjutsu. The only thing I have against battle and iaijutsu competitions is that both would be always won by Kaiu/Akodo/Daidoji and Mirumoto/Kakita/Ide since they have multiplier to these skills. And believe me, without this multiplier you cannot even think of Top10 (look at the tables and you'll see).
Chad-san, I think that you overestimate infulence of a main commander. I agree we should worry more army of sheeps led by a wolf than army of wolves led by a sheep. But here on both sides we have only wolves and the larger battle is, after it began main commander have lesser to do. In fact, main weight lies on shoulders of officers - do they make a stand or flee, do they show initiative, do they show personal valor in combat. Especially in Rokugani culture where battles between samurai splits onto melees between single warriors (at least it looked like that in times of Sengoku in Japan) we should rely more on kenjutsu than battle. There were many battles where outstanding performance of one warrior changed tides of battle dramatically.
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Post by Akodo Tsanuri on Aug 15, 2011 17:39:26 GMT -5
I hate it, but battle and iai are best for war. at least in case of competition. Founding the best strategy or defeating the opponents' general before his troops is what is important and seen, so can gain glory. it doesn't mean that other aspects should be neglected. just these 2 are really good
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Post by Shoju on Aug 15, 2011 17:56:18 GMT -5
So. You just want to disregard Kyujutsu and Kenjutsu?
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Post by Akodo Tsanuri on Aug 15, 2011 18:01:48 GMT -5
no, but I don't find them as suited for tournaments as battle or iaijutsu. I think there should be far more actions based on kyu- & kenjutsu, as well as other skills that were mentioned: athletics, horsemanship, spellcraft and so on. and maybe as in other topic was said, at least some of them could have high participation requirement, like 150 or 200
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Daigotsu Daisuke
Spider Clan
Former Lion Bushi - Newly Initiated Maho Tsukai
Posts: 330
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Post by Daigotsu Daisuke on Aug 15, 2011 18:12:01 GMT -5
That is why Iaijutsu and Battle contest are very boring for most people in the Empire Thats all i gotta say about that. Secondly battle shouldn't be just which ones to employ as an overall commander, but why not allow it to be leading people in general in war? Doesn't the battle skill have merit for officers too? Secondly again, im sorry you're not a crane and maybe battle should be brought into other schools but thats not my decision. I also assume that Jay isn't just going to look at the number 1 spot but will probably see all the other contributors to the contest and give some modifiers based on the general spread. But then again i cant speak for jay. Finally Kenjutsu being more important? I mean have you read personal accounts by samurai? Those guys embellished things quite a bit. I mean Mirumoto Musashi of course will always be thought of as the paragon of bushido and bad assery but not everyone was so awesome that they made their enemies pee themselves and flee. Also have you read the tales of the genji and heike? I mean not every period in japanese warfare was based on duels. and the actions presented by jay dont necessarily suggest a calm dueling pattern. Again just my thoughts
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