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Post by Asahina Yuuto on Sept 5, 2011 18:58:28 GMT -5
If the Shadowlands chooses now to attack the Crab. IF. Whether they're attacked now or in a month or six, they've committed themselves to action that leaves them vulnerable. I don't like the idea of the Crab crushing trade cities at the extreme of our territory, but I'm a lot more afraid of what may show up behind them.
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Post by Soshi Kiso on Sept 5, 2011 19:30:12 GMT -5
In that case, blame the spider for the assasination attempt. It'll give a reason for the Scorpion to take care of it while the wall has few troops on it.
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Post by Asahina Yuuto on Sept 5, 2011 19:54:01 GMT -5
In that case, blame the spider for the assasination attempt. It'll give a reason for the Scorpion to take care of it while the wall has few troops on it. You know, whether they're truely to blame or not, I would hope they are involved, because if they are not, then man they're slipping!
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Toku Hirotomo
Monkey Clan
Bushi Paragon of Compassion Clan Champion Toturi's Army
Posts: 793
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Post by Toku Hirotomo on Sept 5, 2011 22:25:27 GMT -5
What do you mean blame the Spider? Blame seems to indicate they are not responsible and are scape goats. They are the obvious would be assassins. Why would the Scorpion try to kill an Imperial ambassador? I don't believe Hisa was involved either. I've seen shape shifters before.
Hopefully the real Hisa, if he is still alive, will come forward soon. I'd hate to see his name tarnished for creatures having the gall to assume his form.
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Sept 6, 2011 7:28:39 GMT -5
Shape shifters are such a broad term Hirotomo-san. I'm a shape-shifter and many of my friends are also shape-shifters. I'm proud of my hengeyoukai brethren and will not stand to watch them derided in this way. I'll pardon you though. Since you're not a shugenja, it would be hard for you to know that only masters of water can change their shapes freely to become other animals and only talented practitioners of air can hope to create the illusion of them being another person. But no shugenja would use those methods for petty assassination, as that would no doubt draw the ire of the kami. In this case, it's more accurate to blame masters of disguise and misdirection than masters of magic. Also, all this talk about Spiders make the Crab look really bad. What are they doing on the Wall if they can't prevent all this taint to assail the Empire? Do you mean to imply that the Crab aren't doing their jobs Hirotomo-san? Are you blaming this assassination on the fact that they left the Wall to fight in your war? Such a scandalous display Hirotomo-san
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Kitsuki Yuushahime
Dragon Clan
This person sometimes posts things that are tl;dr
Courtier Magistrate Ambassador Daimyo
Posts: 1,140
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Post by Kitsuki Yuushahime on Sept 6, 2011 8:05:25 GMT -5
*chuckles* I think everyone here loves the term "Such a scandalous display!". Someone should make some mere-like images for it for everyone to use to promote the game and forum. Nothing too scandalous of course...
And there are other shape shifters Manji. I cannot dispute your allegations about the Crab though. One can only hope the defenses they left will hold...
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Sept 6, 2011 8:13:35 GMT -5
And there are other shape shifters Manji. I cannot dispute your allegations about the Crab though. One can only hope the defenses they left will hold... Yes, but all of them of the Shadowlands, like the nefarious Bog Hag, who can wear the skins of its victims, or the corrupting Gaki, who can possess mortals. Still, if there are so many things of the Shadowlands wandering freely around, in addition to the Spiders, it would be grave news for us all. And I don't need to say what that would mean for the Crab Clan, as I imagine it would be the ultimate insult.
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Post by kentaro on Sept 6, 2011 8:17:34 GMT -5
Well, I would imagine the Spider attacking the Crab right now would be a poor choice. Lonely Shore City is a short boat ride from Crab lands. Further, it would seem to work against their most recent strategy of courting acceptance.
Then again, had I been involved in the emissary vote on the Toturi side, I would have accepted the emissary from the Spider, if only to buy the Crab some peace and quiet on the homefront.
As to the Crab's 'failure' to properly defend Rokugan: The Crane have allowed war to break out, the Unicorn and Lion failed to contain Yobanjin, the Scorpion failed to provide intelligence on these trends, the Mantis have failed ...
Yes, sometimes people fail at their tasks. So what?
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Sept 6, 2011 8:32:25 GMT -5
Yes, sometimes people fail at their tasks. So what? This answer can only be given in a case by case basis, depending heavily on the Clan and on the task. As a L5R player I would argue that the defense on the Wall is more important than anything you've listed, especially because of the Taint. And the Crab have always been proud of their duty, wielding it both as a badge of honor and as a shield. It's much more insulting to say "man, you just failed on your ancestral duty and allowed Jigoku's corruption to spread across the Empire, damning us all" than to say "damn Crane, you failed to predict what the other 7 Clans would do and keep the Empire's peace", as peace can only be kept when various sides involved in a conflict desire it so. The same goes for the other arguments, imho.
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Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
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Post by Asahina Yukihime on Sept 6, 2011 8:54:01 GMT -5
(OOC and kind off topic but... if you all allow me ...) The Crane have allowed war to break out, the Unicorn and Lion failed to contain Yobanjin, the Scorpion failed to provide intelligence on these trends, the Mantis have failed ... Yes, sometimes people fail at their tasks. So what? Time for a noob question o.o ... where is stated that Crane is supposed to keep Empire in peace? (Or supposed to stop wars, if there is any difference) I never read anything about it (but I skipped a LOT of the official content so...), I believe Crane was involved in Empire's 1st war... (early fail if keeping peace is a point to the clan) but I may be wrong. Anyway, I'm not joining the discussion here, I'm just curious if Tsuruchi-san could tell me where to find references about it? I may be missing some points on the clan concept and I would like to check, but I don't think avoiding war is a duty to the Crane (it's just better to them to keep issues at court level). (I wasn't going to post here, but as I did, I just HAVE to agree with Manji-san about the shapeshifters -o.o-)
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Bayushi Hisa
Scorpion Clan
Samurai * Courtier * Dark Paragon of Will * Loyal
Posts: 479
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Post by Bayushi Hisa on Sept 6, 2011 8:58:08 GMT -5
Given that that isn't the duty bestowed to us by Bayushi, we did not fail. Would any clan have actually trusted a masked Scorpion courtier coming to their courts and warning them of a threat that wasn't the Spider? I highly doubt it. Most of the clans would wonder what events we are trying to manipulate. That being the case, the Yobanjin incursion would be every other clan in Rokugan's failure, not a failure of Scorpion intelligence.
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Sept 6, 2011 9:10:07 GMT -5
It is as Yukihime-san and Hisa-san cleverly pointed out. There are military failures, there are diplomatic failures, there are information gathering failures, which are, in all these cases, collective failures, not the fault of a single Clan. And then there is the failure to fulfill your ancestral duty. They simply can't be compared.
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Post by Jay Luo on Sept 6, 2011 11:09:55 GMT -5
I'm curious: how will the respective successes of both sides be measured in the end? I guess Jay-sama will add up the number of clicks on the two crane actions and the four crab actions, right? Or are some actions meant to help one side get drops required to achieve the others (this could make sense for the supply crab troops action, although I don't what it actually drops). Besides, will proportions be taken into account or will this be a clear-cut win/lose situation? I guess my question is whether it would change something for the Cran to lose with a 10-90 ratio or a 49/51... Defining a strategy without a clue on these subjects can be somewhat problematic. Jay-sama, if you read this... This is tentatively how I plan to resolve battles. When time is up (and I'm not quite certain how long each battle should be yet...but will try to give some warning before each ends), I will total up the number of pro-Hantei and pro-Toturi clicks in that location. I'll term this the total "Force" of each army. There may be some special actions that contribute Force in a different way than pure number of clicks (and these will be explained if and when such actions are added), but most of the time it will be total clicks. Whichever army with more "Force" will "win the battle". The margin of victory will make some difference for story purposes. I don't have a definite rule for how this will work, but winning by 2 to 1 will be more decisive than winning by 6 to 5. If the margin is extremely small I may allow the battle to continue until a more definite result is achieved. Hope that helps!
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Daidoji Fitsu
Crane Clan
A prepared Daidoji is an implacable foe on the field of battle. Fitsu is always prepared.
Posts: 311
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Post by Daidoji Fitsu on Sept 6, 2011 11:26:52 GMT -5
It makes sense, but it seems that the costs of the actions are a little lopsided then. I understand that Lonely Shore should be difficult to defend given that we chose to send our forces to Toshi Ranbo, but that doesn't explain why it's so much more difficult to get the required items to defend Toshi Ranbo than it is to attack it!
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Enishi
Dragon Clan
Ninja * shadow * tattooed * Mad prophet of Nothing
Posts: 254
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Post by Enishi on Sept 6, 2011 12:27:52 GMT -5
Thank you very much Jay-sama, I couldn't have hoped for a clearer answer. Now I'll go sleep seated under a waterfall and pretend I'm deeply strategizing
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