Kakita Mitsouko
Crane Clan Mod
::Daimyo::Kenshinzen::Hatamoto of Crane Clan::Paragon of Duty
Posts: 1,952
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Post by Kakita Mitsouko on Sept 19, 2011 7:47:10 GMT -5
Please don’t think I mean to be offensive or such, but I have a question: If Senshi, Who is a Champion of a great clan, chose to ignore the result of a vote that affected his clan destiny, can other clans leaders also ignore the result of this war when it finally ends? Vote is vote, actions are actions, and if we chose to ignore events of course we will be playing different games, with different results. To me, seems to be a valid question. After months of voting, piles of bodies, their leader will enter the chamber and say to Hantei he sent ambassadors there earlier to lie to Hantei, dying senseless because he has no intention of following the results of the vote afterall? Any player has the right to choose his style of playing and actions to perform, behaviors to adhere; but please, a player that chose and was chosen to perform the role of such a leader must show some respect for the ones he leads and all the time they lose voting and losing their characters in a ultimate act to try to be heard by their leaders. For more is Scorpion being known for their unusual way of doing things, it’s way too much believe one can do it (coming to Hantei and telling him all that Seppuku show was just an amusement to him, while everything Senshi really wished to do and say was another entirely different thing) without consequences. And of course, we have no means to know if Senshi would return alive after saying such things to Hantei. There are other options for him, one of them of course becoming ronin to defend his ideals. Other being inactive into the Imperial court, showing his good will and respect and personally doing nothing to help any side, but allowing his clan to move whatever they like (much like a self proclaimed hostage). The mentioned musha shugio, joining another family or retirement from public life becoming a monk are also options, as mentioned by the Dragon.
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Post by kentaro on Sept 19, 2011 7:48:28 GMT -5
As I've warned you before... Suffer now and sing with me! If I were to sing, we would all, indeed, suffer.
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Post by kentaro on Sept 19, 2011 7:57:12 GMT -5
I think Kakita Mitsuoko-san made some great points.
I think this is a problem for the Scorpion to resolve, but it does suggest that the various clans should consider what they expect from their champion. What the Champion expects from the clan is, fortunate or not, moot: No forum Champion has any means of coercive control. Best case, they can freeze out disobedient characters from role-plays.
I would recommend all Clans and Champions consider this issue now, so that when (not if) it arises, they have a policy in place to deal with it. So that it may be handled by rules set down while tempers have not flared.
And, for the record, my personal political beliefs have approximately nothing to do with the game.
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Post by kentaro on Sept 19, 2011 8:02:51 GMT -5
In my suggestion of moving to another thread, I was referring to any historical discussions, not to discussions of what Senshi should do, or issues to do with this game.
Please remember, I have no authority, I merely suggest.
My suggestions:
Disucssions about the Scorpion vote, what it means, Senshi's options, and the nature of Championship in this game all make absolute sense here. These all seem related to the News thread.
Discussions about how samurai in the historic Japan settled these issues make more sense (to me, at least), in General Discussion. While they may come up in this thread, I feel like any in depth debate or discussion about history belongs in the General Discussion threads. (For the record, I will gladly jump in fists flying to any historical debate.)
My intent was merely to suggest a venue for these historical discussions, that would not distract from the specific issues of this game.
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Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
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Post by Asahina Yukihime on Sept 19, 2011 8:20:27 GMT -5
Giving it a good explanation is not ignoring it, IMO.
I'm not suggesting he should pretend it never happened, I'm suggesting he could explain WHY it happened in a way he doesn't have to go against his own (or his own character) will.
Like, he can perfectly say "we're are joining Hantei" <= official clan decision. Take his Scorpion into Toshi Ranbo and "haha- I was lying, evil plan, hate light blue". Official instances may also be strategical instances. And pretending is a strategy fit to the Scorpion.
Would be unfair and may be not so nice to the guys who had their characters killed (IMO), but not much people really bother about being nice. (being nice is not a rule or mandaroty stuff, being fair should be, and being polite. I hope I had expressed myself properly on the way I wanted, but not sure on that >.o )
A bunch of other champions (and other daimyous and samurais) already choose to ignore the voting results. And gave it some explanation. Is Senshi more important than Dragons, Mantis or Crabs?
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Kakita Mitsouko
Crane Clan Mod
::Daimyo::Kenshinzen::Hatamoto of Crane Clan::Paragon of Duty
Posts: 1,952
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Post by Kakita Mitsouko on Sept 19, 2011 8:25:45 GMT -5
Mantis champion and Crab champion still adhere their clan majority votes, even if some family daimyo remained loyal to Hantei or chose to be neutral and perform other activities. It's what I said before, no champion did it, ignoring their clan decision. Senshi can be the first, of course, it's up to him. He asked opinions, we are giving them to him.
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Post by kentaro on Sept 19, 2011 8:26:23 GMT -5
I believe Senshi-sama is merely casting about for ideas on how to handle this conflict of desires. Personally, I often engage in a little group brainstorming when I am stuck on a character decision. I will choose the course that I prefer, but this in no way denigrates the opinions of others, or the process of seeking their input. I also believe I am now putting words in Senshi-sama's mouth, so I will shut the hell up on this matter.
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Post by Mirumoto Shigekazu on Sept 19, 2011 9:46:16 GMT -5
Kentaro-san, I did not wanted to start a discussion about historical ways but by correspondence to old Japan I want to show possible ways for those who disagree now (as you and Kaito-san did before me).
No one can ignore the outcome. One way or another everybody must change their plans, change their stories. Even daymio of the Clan since it is more honourable title than real title with political and military power. But how it would be resolved by Scorpions we should leave to them. I am sure that they will do just fine.
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Post by Shoju on Sept 19, 2011 11:01:17 GMT -5
I think that Senshi is in a predicament that very few have found themselves in. The actions in game really put him in a tough spot, with or without RP. Valid arguments can be made on both sides of the debate.
I do hope that Senshi is able to glean some wisdom from what people are saying, and I was serious, you are always welcome to come hang with me, even if it means that you are siding with the spider to come try and hunt me down and kill me while the rest of the empire burns arounds us.
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Sept 19, 2011 11:46:50 GMT -5
I wrote those lines because I don't think going ronin is not an option for a champion I'm not seeking to argue, I was just pointing out that, although uncommon, people could choose to become ronin (among the other options pointed out by Shigekazu). But I do agree with you that this should not be an option for a Clan Champion, save the two notable exceptions of musha shugyo or becoming a monk (and, for both, the Champion would have to relinquish his post). A Clan Champion, more than anyone, should be prepared to bear the consequences for his actions and know that they will impact his whole Clan. In my opinion, once you accept a responsibility, you can't simply run from it or ignore it at your convenience. But, that is ultimately a problem for the Scorpion to solve and it should be them discussing with Senshi what they think would be the best courses of action. Again, I agree with Yukihime (by now I think this is pretty much a given) and Mitsouko. And it's exactly because I agree with them that I can't understand why some people freaked out so much when Masamoto started his topic about the Mantis Fleet way back then.
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Bayushi Senshi
Scorpion Clan
Scorpion Clan * Clan Champion * Samurai * Kensai * Experienced * Loyal * Unique
Posts: 1,891
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Post by Bayushi Senshi on Sept 19, 2011 11:51:20 GMT -5
Senshi will suffer no man to walk in the company of a traitor to the scorpion clan. Be them Spider or this so called "snake".
hmm, which raises a valid point to mind.
I would like to thank everyone for discussing this civilly, I have made up my mind about what I'm going to do. I will take this time to clarify a few points:
1. I had in fact brought this same question to the Scorpion clan, a couple of them asked that I talk to other players and see how some choices would be received, i.e. what message would choice "x" send. I thank the honorable Crane Mitsouko, for really digging deep into this matter.
2. I brought this up because I wanted to explore as many options as I could, this is indeed a very tough spot to be in. I knew there would be other choices I had yet to explore, I thank Yukihime for really throwing out some wacky ideas there. :3
3.Someone had suggested I go declare myself emperor, would you believe it I had actually entertained this idea sometime back? xD
4. This has been very illuminating, and I thank you all for your reasoned discussion and participation in this thread. Senshi is ready to face the emperor now. Read the thread "Arrival" in Toshi Ranbo for the whole story.
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Post by Utaku Kasumi on Sept 19, 2011 12:11:42 GMT -5
At least Haruka is safe! *glares at Senshi* Hmpf!
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