10/24/2011: Shiro Hiruma

[sprinkles]

I don't know how Jay is rating it but if it's straight clicks then the spider don't stand a chance.

[Enishi]

Completely OOC, I wonder if the massive advantage the spider attack has in its number of attacks isn't hinting at this difference in player numbers. Like, Jay adding a metric ton of actions on the Spider side so that it can pose a real threat it wouldn't be if the advantage was only 2 actions to 1 or even 3 actions to 1 the way it's elsewhere.
Not that it would matter in game anyway, just thinking aloud. EE is a very interesting exercice in game design and Jay is to be commanded on what he's doing with it, IMO

[Kakita Mitsouko]

Oct 24, 2011 22:48:09 GMT -5 Mirumoto Machu said:

But isn't the point of this subplot that some characters are so wrapped up in polotics that they would never give help or ask for help from "the other side"?

Well right now we are thinking in offer help. It can be either received with a laugh outburst, or with some reasoning. I do not know. But believe me, while I am sitting on a huge mountain of jade right now (and other Cranes do as well), ready to be given away for the sake of the Empire, I see Crab ravaging my lands... It must have politics involved, do not makes sense we help Crab to defeat the Empires enemies while they are gloating over our lands...
Anyway, Crane think we should try... You know, we are just a click distance to help.

[Bayushi Hiryu]

Mitsouko-sama,

As you know, the Scorpion clan has firmly joined the true Emperor, and our armies are well positioned to help our Crab brethren, should the opportunity arise and context be favourable. Moreover, the Taint is a danger to Rokugan as a whole, not only to Crab territory, and Shiro Hiruma would undoubtedly be only the first step in an invasion that could potentially be a disasteer for the whole Empire. Why, then, would you not make arrangements to transfer part of your considerable jade holdings to our clan, which is nearer the action? I can ensure you that such reserves would be well guarded and well used by our ever so vigilant clan, and we could help you acquire items that would better fuel your war and rebuilding efforts in return.

Yours faithfully,

Bayushi Hiryu, Taisa of the First Legion of the Scorpion

[sprinkles]

The problem with the multiple actions is the items required to do them. They are very rare. With the Spider being highly out numbered and unable to get what is required to master their actions they have no chance of taking the wall in a straight clicking.
I have no idea how Jay is balancing everything. And am not judging him. Without being able to see everything behind the scenes no one really has that right. I'm just stating what I see. There are a high number of people against ANY action the Spider take and then making the requirement higher on the Spider end then the other side means we have no chance of ever succeeding at any action we wish to take.
Please don't mistake this as complaining this is just stating things as I see them. The Spider got alot of very cool actions early on and I still love playing Spider but this topic has come up quite a bit in our private forum. In the current environment there is nothing we can do to succeed at anything.

[Hida Joji]

Well, it's not like one clan is gonna beat all the others

[Daigotsu Thrakhath]

After checking up on items, it looks like the most annoying thing to get hold of is Scouts, which are needed to get the undead legions and curses.

Anyone know a good place to farm scouts? >.>

[sprinkles]

I think I got mine by training with bandits. Also I think they can be gifted by certain clans.

[Shoju]

Patrol Carpenter Pass. That is where I have farmed my....... 900 or so scouts /cry.

[Tamori Manji]

The funny thing about playing a clicking game (which has no restrictions about time/space) is that the same people who were, say, defending Toshi Ranbo (or marching with Kaneka or the EC) can now, suddenly, be defending the Wall, as if it was one day away from there. Theoretically speaking, it should be impossible for, at least, Crane, Unicorn, Lion, Phoenix, Dragon, half of the Crab and, probably, Mantis to help defend the Wall, considering the positioning of the armies and time needed to travel there. This impossibility would make such an attack the serious threat it should be. But, as it is now, the Spider doesn't stand a chance. They are only one Clan against the joint forces of all the others (this would be hardcore even if their items were easy to get).

And, no way in Jigoku I can picture, amidst a war, for a Clan that is being under attack by someone, to offer help to its assailant just because said assailant forgot its back door open and is now dealing with robbers. For a no end of practical reasons actually (if anyone wants details, feel free to PM me but I think these conclusions are all very natural). Even if the war ended now, I would have trouble picturing it. The same goes for the Scorpion "offer" of "help".

I also don't believe this is simply a question of how to balance things off (because, really, I do think it's nice when Jay implements actions that require items that fit them, independently of their rarity) but a problem of the media we are using to play. There is only so much one can do to restrict other people's movements and accessibility without crippling everyone. That said, this is just me reflecting on these subjects and there's no special point to it.

[Utaku Mai]

What could happen is that Jay could have a preconceived result based on the clicking game. Maybe the spider enter the battle with a 5-3 advantage to try to account for their relatively low numbers, so that everyone else has to do even more clicks to beat it.

Admittedly, I could only really do one level of mastery on the Shiro Hiruma action, as I don't really have much jade and am not focused on farming it right now.

[Shoju]

Curses are easy.
Undead legions? Oi. That action is ROUGH.

[sprinkles]

Exactly Mai which is why I said I'm not judging Jay without knowing the facts. I'm just pointing out the disadvantage in a straight up click vs click. It could be that all the clicks the spider have done count against the crab while the crab are just now getting a single action to try and counter.

To put it all into perspective though the actual course of events went like this. 1) Spider released a plague 2) the Crab took a large portion of their troops north. 3) the Spider attacked the crab while they were weak.
We've tried to exploit the situation as much as possible. I'm just hoping their is some mechanic in place that reflects this.

The problem with Curses is you have to farm for an item to then farm for them to then use to attack the wall. Many players will not bother farming that much.

[Hida Joji]

Curses are easy? where? Besides the action requiring blood rites?

[Mirumoto Shigekazu]

Throwing stones to the Three Sides River.