Mirumoto Machu
Dragon Clan
Advantage: Different school Shiba bushi. Dissadvantage: Missing limb
Posts: 299
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Post by Mirumoto Machu on Oct 25, 2011 20:55:39 GMT -5
;D
Thanks manji for explaining it a bit better.
Yea, even if Jay thinks it is a great idea I would not really expect to see it before the end of the current war between Touturi and Hantei.
As much as I want to see all kinds of new things I would never want to see Jay chained to the computer.
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Bayushi Hisa
Scorpion Clan
Samurai * Courtier * Dark Paragon of Will * Loyal
Posts: 479
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Post by Bayushi Hisa on Oct 25, 2011 21:13:04 GMT -5
First I was combined with Kiso, now my kagemusha are being called by my name. All according to plan...
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Akodo Kenzo
Lion Clan
Lion Clan * Bushi * Tactician * Shireikan of the Akodo Army * Ambassador to the Scorpion Clan
Posts: 371
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Post by Akodo Kenzo on Oct 26, 2011 3:05:37 GMT -5
As interesting an idea as being heavily engaged might be, I just don't see it as being necessary. We may not be limited by distance, but we are limited by fate. Even the most consistently active players can only do so much, and nothing they can do will make that fate bar refill any faster. How you spend that fate is a statement about what's important to you. Every point that you use to defend the Wall against the Spider is a point that you're *not* using to fight battles or conscript troops or whatnot. That's our limiter, and it's a good one. I don't see any need to over-complicate things.
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Bayushi Hiryu
Scorpion Clan
Scorpion Clan Ninja*Dragon Clan Ally*Samurai*Courtier* Tactician*Chrysanthemum*Inexp Hiryu*Unique
Posts: 217
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Post by Bayushi Hiryu on Oct 26, 2011 6:16:13 GMT -5
As interesting an idea as being heavily engaged might be, I just don't see it as being necessary. We may not be limited by distance, but we are limited by fate. Even the most consistently active players can only do so much, and nothing they can do will make that fate bar refill any faster. How you spend that fate is a statement about what's important to you. Every point that you use to defend the Wall against the Spider is a point that you're *not* using to fight battles or conscript troops or whatnot. That's our limiter, and it's a good one. I don't see any need to over-complicate things. Fully agreed. I'd rather see new missions advancing the various plots, or new ancestors, than the Heavily Engaged.
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Akodo Keisuke
Lion Clan Mod
Lion Clan Regent ?Samurai ?Daimyo ?First Among Generals ?Tactician ?Commander ?Loyal
Posts: 704
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Post by Akodo Keisuke on Oct 26, 2011 9:50:37 GMT -5
Fully agreed. I'd rather see new missions advancing the various plots, or new ancestors, than the Heavily Engaged. I agree with Kenzo and Hiryu, not only would war tokens add a level of complexity to the game that is not required. Further, if there were multiple battle going on across the empire the war tokens would give a large advantage to those clans with the larger player base, and more specifically the player base who is most active on the forum.
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Oct 26, 2011 10:03:18 GMT -5
(...)if there were multiple battle going on across the empire the war tokens would give a large advantage to those clans with the larger player base, and more specifically the player base who is most active on the forum. A large player base doesn't mean a coordinated player base (like the ones the Crane and the Lion have). I feel that restricting battle access would simply require better deployment of Clan/Alliance resources (for those Clans/Alliances that can manage to muster their players). But yes, it does add a level of complexity, both for us and Jay, there's no denying that. We may not be limited by distance, but we are limited by fate. Even the most consistently active players can only do so much, and nothing they can do will make that fate bar refill any faster. While we may be limited by Fate on a daily basis, a battle doesn't end in a single week (or even a single month). It is perfectly possible for players to attain emerald mastery in all the battles going on for their Clan/Alliance, given the time they take to play out (Seawatch Castle is, after all, still going on). And I say this while being a relatively low level player, it must be even easier for older players to participate in multiple battles and war fronts at once. EDIT: That is to say that, while I really like the idea expressed by Mirumoto Machu, I understand its problems and that some players, like Bayushi Hiryu, may prefer other kinds of improvements to the game. Against that, I won't argue. But the Fate and Clan coordination thingies are very subjective and situation dependent. I simply don't see them as strong arguments against the idea (at least, not yet. I may be wrong).
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Akodo Keisuke
Lion Clan Mod
Lion Clan Regent ?Samurai ?Daimyo ?First Among Generals ?Tactician ?Commander ?Loyal
Posts: 704
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Post by Akodo Keisuke on Oct 26, 2011 11:52:29 GMT -5
A large player base doesn't mean a coordinated player base (like the ones the Crane and the Lion have). I feel that restricting battle access would simply require better deployment of Clan/Alliance resources (for those Clans/Alliances that can manage to muster their players). But yes, it does add a level of complexity, both for us and Jay, there's no denying that. This is a rule that is catering to a specific type of player. Players already have to make a choice between which battle they are going to participate by farming the resources needed for that battle. True some battles have lasted long enough that players who feel that they have reached a finishing point at one location, there is still time to farm new resources and move on to another. But that is the nature of this click based game. What this rule would break down to is limiting player access to actions. Any time you implement such restriction you tend to scare off the casual player. There is a bell curve that exist, where the more complex a game becomes the more casual players you will begin to lose. EDIT: That is to say that, while I really like the idea expressed by Mirumoto Machu, I understand its problems and that some players, like Bayushi Hiryu, may prefer other kinds of improvements to the game. Against that, I won't argue. But the Fate and Clan coordination thingies are very subjective and situation dependent. I simply don't see them as strong arguments against the idea (at least, not yet. I may be wrong). Fate is not a subjective restriction, for those players who have a low Fate score restricts how many actions they can take a day, and limits their ability to farm for actions that could be used across multiple battles and locations. When I reffed to Clan coordination I was also referring to size of the player base as well. The more players a clan has the easier time that clan will have dividing those players among specific locations. The more players a clan has that are active on the forum here they will be given the advantage of actually assigning players to specific locations. The type of play being described here is more akin to Strategic L5R, where there is a map Rokugan and each piece on that is represented by a player and their deck. Whilst Strategic L5R is fun, it is not a facebook click game. If players like Mirumoto Machu, wish to limit themselves to a very specific way of playing and there by limit those things which they participate in, that is their right to do so, but others players should not be asked to do the same.
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Post by Mirumoto Asano on Oct 26, 2011 12:22:55 GMT -5
I mastered all actions in every battle (exept ones that required very rare items like gaijin goods), so its not question of choice. Fate is not restriction, it replenishes every minute for everybody, if you have low fate you must check EE more often, thats all. I very much like the idea of some item that binds you to specific battleground.
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Akodo Keisuke
Lion Clan Mod
Lion Clan Regent ?Samurai ?Daimyo ?First Among Generals ?Tactician ?Commander ?Loyal
Posts: 704
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Post by Akodo Keisuke on Oct 26, 2011 12:53:47 GMT -5
Well maybe mastery is a bit off the mark as it relates to this subject. In the context of clicking/voting for actions at battle fields most players go well beyond the mastery levels. . None of the arguments so far have addressed the fact that some clans have significantly larger more organized player base. A restrictive rule like this gives those clans an advantage. Those clans could say place all of the high level players at one location and place the mass of low level characters at another. So beyond the the up hill struggle of having to overcome the numbers advantage, the small clans will have to divide their resource even further.
Running parallel to the fact that some clans have a larger player base, those organized clans they do not represent the player, base at large. I would argue that those of us who work together on the forum a a small fraction of the overall player base. Therefore it would be unwise to implement a rule that requires all the players of one clan to communicate with one another when that is simply not the reality of what happens here on the forum and in the game.
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Ikoma Buretto
Lion Clan
Lion Clan Courtier?Daimyo?Samurai?Hedonist?Experienced?Unique
Posts: 192
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Post by Ikoma Buretto on Oct 26, 2011 13:38:26 GMT -5
I mastered all actions in every battle (exept ones that required very rare items like gaijin goods), so its not question of choice. Fate is not restriction, it replenishes every minute for everybody, if you have low fate you must check EE more often, thats all. I very much like the idea of some item that binds you to specific battleground. Fate is a restriction if you factor in people's lives off-line (or at least outside the realm of Facebook) Some players (myself included) only check facebook once or twice a day. My Fate in that time, therefore, is limited.
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Agasha Shodai
Phoenix Clan Mod
Phoenix Clan * The Void Master * Tensai * Taisa * Enlightened * Paragon of Compassion * Unique
Posts: 783
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Post by Agasha Shodai on Oct 26, 2011 17:03:53 GMT -5
I've always considered that actions I take in a location other than where I'm RPing at are actions that I'm utilizing my personal contacts, allies, and resources available in that region to act on my behalf - giving orders and delegating authority as it were.
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Akodo Kenzo
Lion Clan
Lion Clan * Bushi * Tactician * Shireikan of the Akodo Army * Ambassador to the Scorpion Clan
Posts: 371
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Post by Akodo Kenzo on Oct 26, 2011 18:57:46 GMT -5
I mastered all actions in every battle (exept ones that required very rare items like gaijin goods), so its not question of choice. Fate is not restriction, it replenishes every minute for everybody, if you have low fate you must check EE more often, thats all. I very much like the idea of some item that binds you to specific battleground. I'm not sure I understand your point. Mastery level doesn't really matter that much for voting actions. Clicks don't stop counting just because you've got a job to emerald mastery. If you don't want to use your fate to go past that, that's fine. That's your choice to make, but the fact that you've chosen otherwise doesn't negate the existence of that choice. Furthermore, your personal fate pool isn't the limit that I mentioned. As you said, larger fate pools are merely a convenience allowing you to check back less often without letting fate go to waste. No, the big limiter here is your fate regeneration rate. You get one fate per minute, period. Nothing you do can increase that rate, and a finite number of minutes per day means a finite amount of fate.
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Oct 26, 2011 19:43:47 GMT -5
Kenzo, I don't see Fate as a limiting factor. When battles go on for weeks on end, its very easy for people to emerald everything they need in a battle (80 votes, usually) in the first few days and be left with a loooong time to choose between other battles, replenishing troops, further clicking or whatever they want. Really, I've never seen Fate as that limiting. But then again, maybe I'm just used to games that regenerate 1 point of energy each 5 minutes (because I think 1 Fate per minute is VERY fast). And Keisuke, how many Clans here can coordinate the amount of players that the Lion and Crane can? Please tell me because I don't know. The Dragon has, barely, 10 players online each day; the Scorpion has more players but is known for its internal division; the Unicorn, except for the last few days, has, usually, few players on the forums... this is true for most of the Clans. Even if all of them voted together, we have, what? around 500 inscriptions in the whole forum? I think that's not even one third of EE's player base. So, really, I don't see this as being the monster you're picturing. (...) it would be unwise to implement a rule that requires all the players of one clan to communicate with one another when that is simply not the reality of what happens here on the forum and in the game. But it doesn't. It's true, if the players communicate among themselves, they can have an edge, but this is not required. Still, it would value the effort, for those that do communicate between themselves, of coordinating actions. Also, about the fate amounts, I'm not even lvl 100 and I have 194 (two void tokens away from 197) Fate. When I was around lvl 60 I already had more or less 150 Fate. In my opinion, that's more than enough to make an impact. The main difference between new and old players here is not Fate, nor time online daily but resources (which means that more experienced players don't really have to farm for many resources used in battles because they already did that during the peace time and have a good stock of items reserved for such an occasion). I also can't see this "scaring off" the casual player because only the battle mechanics would be affected. Everything else would stay as it is. The casual player would probably take a while to notice any difference in the gameplay. After all I've just said, I must remember everyone, again, that I do not expect this to be implemented in the game, nor am I lobbying it to be. So, do not be afraid. I simply complimented what I thought was an inspired idea on Machu's part. I recognize it's flaws, but I think its strong points and strategic value (because it asks the question "which battle is more important to you?") make it being worth of mention.
I must say that I think discussions like these are very important. Mainly because they make people think and create arguments that support their opinions. Among all the different arguments presented, eventually, we may find good things that will suit the game or make us understand a particular mechanic (or player behavior) better.
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Kitsuki Yuushahime
Dragon Clan
This person sometimes posts things that are tl;dr
Courtier Magistrate Ambassador Daimyo
Posts: 1,140
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Post by Kitsuki Yuushahime on Oct 27, 2011 8:29:03 GMT -5
Dragon soars with Dragon. I have to agree with Manji on all these points. Most particuarly though that the discussion is important. I've read through the forums lately and I think posts are become more civilised again and less us vs them on so many issues. I think it is a lot healthier and I for one prefer it. I hope you all agree with that. There is less... animosity? I was involved in that too. I think everyone was at one stage or another. We saw it as just friendly banter/exchanging of challenges/semi-in character insults. However, there is a danger to doing this for too long and I think it eventually started to slowly sour the atmosphere of the forum a bit. So I am really glad I get the feeling things are way more civil again ^_^
Also, I haven't said it yet but... thanks for the update Jay!
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Post by Utaku Kasumi on Oct 27, 2011 19:11:32 GMT -5
Remember, I am watching you
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