Daidoji Fitsu
Crane Clan
A prepared Daidoji is an implacable foe on the field of battle. Fitsu is always prepared.
Posts: 311
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Post by Daidoji Fitsu on Jan 3, 2012 16:56:30 GMT -5
By not assuming we've already won and not walking away to do other things we can earn a victory. If we falter we deserve to lose. Giving them freebies won't make winning any sweeter, it will just make defeat more bitter for EITHER side.
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Post by Bayushi Hiromitsu on Jan 3, 2012 17:03:03 GMT -5
By not assuming we've already won and not walking away to do other things we can earn a victory. If we falter we deserve to lose. Giving them freebies won't make winning any sweeter, it will just make defeat more bitter for EITHER side. Where is the "like" button anyway? o.o; Oh yes... here.
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Jan 3, 2012 17:03:19 GMT -5
By not assuming we've already won and not walking away to do other things we can earn a victory. If we falter we deserve to lose. Giving them freebies won't make winning any sweeter, it will just make defeat more bitter for EITHER side. Again, I completely agree with Fitsu. These words were certainly worthy of the Crane's Rikugunshokan and I couldn't have said it any better. *bows humbly to Fitsu* EDIT: Let me steal Hiromitsu's idea:
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Akodo Keisuke
Lion Clan Mod
Lion Clan Regent ?Samurai ?Daimyo ?First Among Generals ?Tactician ?Commander ?Loyal
Posts: 704
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Post by Akodo Keisuke on Jan 3, 2012 17:15:49 GMT -5
It is very easy to to talk about the either bitter or sweet taste of victory when you are on the winning side. Yet when there is a clear unbalance to the game that favors one side or the other, all sides lose out.
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Post by Bayushi Hiromitsu on Jan 3, 2012 17:25:15 GMT -5
"A loser doesn't know what he'll do if he loses, but talks about what he'll do if he wins, and a winner doesn't talk about what he'll do if he wins, but knows what he'll do if he loses." (Eric Berne)
No point talking about it now then... right guys? The dragon had major problems with unity, and yet, they tried very hard.
If there's any unbalance between actions (Fire Blossom by exemple), it should have been discussed a long time ago.
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Daidoji Fitsu
Crane Clan
A prepared Daidoji is an implacable foe on the field of battle. Fitsu is always prepared.
Posts: 311
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Post by Daidoji Fitsu on Jan 3, 2012 17:27:33 GMT -5
Which was exactly the case at Toshi Ranbo as well. Since we can assume the greater number of clicks across the board is due in part to increased participation and greater clicking capacities caused by everyone having more Fate, the best gauge of how easy an action is vs other actions comes from percentage of use. If you want to complain about an action that accounts for 44 percent of out totals and want make up actions, perhaps we deserve make up actions to account for the ease of the action that made up 44 percent of your victory at Toshi Ranbo, Careful Planning. Plus you had light infantry actions there and we did not.
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Post by Akodo Tsanuri on Jan 3, 2012 17:29:37 GMT -5
I like Senshi-san idea. yeah, I know, as Toturi supporter it's pretty obvious I should like it. but on the other hand, I can't disagree with Fitsu-san arguments. as a player I would prefer to lose then win with an action that will cause half of the forum feeling cheated. and well, Senshi-san proposition is a bit like this.
but I think action, like Senshi-san mentioned, could be used, just in a little different form. like, that action wouldn't cost 5 fate, but ex. 15, it wouldn't be equally long as other actions, but let's say it will be possible to do it for very, very short time. like a day. or two and I would use it only in special situation, like 1,5:1 for Hentei (it's like "we don't need much, we are so close, we will do EVERYTHING to win")
and I would consider making an action that will allow maybe both sides, maybe only one, die in battle with some big gain for the clan (like 1/10 glory or so) - yeah, I know that's MUCH, but that will also seal this player possibility to fight in this battle (it's not so easy to gain new troops and all necessary items and skill level near 50 with new char, with its little fate)
EDIT: yeah, sure, light cavalry is quite easy to farm, but it was also very popular in other battles. after Yobanjin I too had much of them. not any more though :/
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Jan 3, 2012 17:33:25 GMT -5
Keisuke, I'm forced to bring up the Spider battle at the Wall again. Remember what happened there? Yeah, I don't see them crying (they complained back them, justly, but then resigned themselves and did what had to be done. Even though they lost, they did so with some semblance of honor, as weird as it may seem).
The battle at CotSS is not decided yet, despite how you might want to make it look like. 8-12 weeks is a long time and many things may happen. Also, tell me which battle has the Toturi side lost until now? Only Permission City and that was an almost completely irrelevant victory for Hantei in the great scheme of things (almost forgot, the Crane successfully repelled the Mantis attack in SWC). What I see now is despair because you guys are finally facing a situation where you might lose an important battle and you desire to win at any costs. If the Fire Blossoms were so unbalanced, shouldn't this have been brought up, like, 2 months ago?
I'm trying to understand your side of this problem, truly I am, but the thing is that I see people complaining about "balance" only when its supposed absence affects something they want directly. I didn't see this huge reaction against supposedly unbalanced actions when the Spiders got the short end of the proverbial stick. Nor did it happen before Jay divulged the temporary battle results. This makes me wonder if we would be seeing this reaction to his post if he hadn't published any temporary numbers. If you truly think this battle should be "balanced" you should not be solely attacking the Fire Blossoms action, you should also be proposing ways of creating new actions for the Dragon that mirror the ones the Lion gets in drops and rewards. That is not what I see though.
Sorry if I sounded aggressive at any moment, it was not the intention. I like you, and many other Lion players (like Homura and Tomatsu) but I can't understand which balance you are talking about when you speak only of a balance that favors you.
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Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
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Post by Asahina Yukihime on Jan 3, 2012 17:38:42 GMT -5
Well, not an useful info but; Lore is not the most popular skill (only one out of my 5 chars can do Fire Blossoms).
I know a few players put an extreme amount of effort in doing these actions over and over again. I believe just a few people are responsible for a huge amount of clicks. So the difference is likely due to a few guys only, not to unbalanced actions. If it was so bad balanced we would had noticed it before the results were posted.
We know a lot of people (not in the forums) care only about the tokens and if Toturi side have more actions, and more tokens, they are going to get clicks as well.
Can't wait for this war to be over >.o one way or another.
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quarim
Dragon Clan
Merchant*Qolat*Gaijin
Posts: 334
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Post by quarim on Jan 3, 2012 17:51:09 GMT -5
For the record I did complain quite a bit about the battle at the Wall. I don't remember however any non Spider supporting my argument. There have been quite a few unbalanced actions in the war. And basically we just have to deal with it. I don't like it. BUT looking at the results most of the battles have been close so I don't think Jay is far off. Remember he can see every click everyone is making. He knows how many members each clan has active so he can gauge these things rather well. He knows what he has planned. The reason the Dragon are so far ahead is because they put alot of effort into it. If the Lion put that much effort into it they have a chance especially since there are more actions to come.
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Enishi
Dragon Clan
Ninja * shadow * tattooed * Mad prophet of Nothing
Posts: 254
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Post by Enishi on Jan 3, 2012 18:01:20 GMT -5
I think it's also interesting to point out that even without counting the Fire blosoms action, the total of Hantei clicks numbers nearly 24 000, which is roughly as much as the battle for Toshi Ranbo - and that's without that "star" action that should have drained clicks away from all others. I think that click count is through the roof not just because one action was allegedly too easy: it's through the roof because Hantei supporters have basically focused 100% of their efforts on that battle.
I'm pretty much with Quarim on that balance issue I guess.
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Post by Isawa Okibi on Jan 3, 2012 18:16:46 GMT -5
I'd like to echo Raposas comment as well. Maybe 90% or more of the player base will not read this, since most are not on the forum. Of those who read this, maybe half are Hantei supporters. And, of those few, maybe a handful will chose to farm this action.
My estimation is that maybe 5% of the players will be actively adding to the Hantei actions over the next weeks. This will add up, of course. Whereas with the new actions being more popular the Toturi will perhaps catch up (especially with the boost from the contest).
Most people will likely follow every new action around the empire and look forward to new content. I'll probably do that myself.
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Akodo Keisuke
Lion Clan Mod
Lion Clan Regent ?Samurai ?Daimyo ?First Among Generals ?Tactician ?Commander ?Loyal
Posts: 704
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Post by Akodo Keisuke on Jan 3, 2012 18:49:20 GMT -5
I think I need to slow down a bit here, by arguing the same point over and over I am creating unnecessary conflict.
Whilst I am not convinced by the arguments put forth I will concede, that this is a debate were neither side would meet eye to eye on, because we are strongly caught up in the situation here, both in time invested and given what is at stake in this battle.
Right or wrong I have brought up this issues of game I thought should be brought up. Perhaps, I hammed on them to forcefully so instead of voicing a concern I have done my cause more harm than good.
To the other players I am sorry if have offended anyone.
Jay, think this much back and forth speaks volumes to the wonderful game you have created here. To I apologizes the most if I gave you offense because that was not my intention from the beginning.
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Kakita Sojiro
Crane Clan Global Mod
When you die, will you be remembered, or will you be just another strand in the tapestry?
Posts: 900
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Post by Kakita Sojiro on Jan 3, 2012 18:51:16 GMT -5
Keisuke, thank you for your clear-headedness and desire to avoid conflict. It is very much noticed and appreciated.
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Jan 3, 2012 19:02:33 GMT -5
Sojiro, its kinda funny of you to say "clear-headedness" about Keisuke considering that he is bald and all... Anyway, I understand the point which you all are trying to raise, even though I disagree about some aspects of it, and I think there's no harm done in such discussions. They may even do some good, who knows?
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