1/22/2012: War and Peace

[Tamori Manji]

I agree, that may very well be the case, but, even if you got the bamboo from somewhere else, by directly attacking the Fox, you would be automatically making the foxes and forest spirits into your enemies. I mean, yesterday one of the Dragons even said that he would avoid clicking on those actions because he did not want a Sworn Enemy: Foxwife, it was kinda predictable. I am sorry to say but you shouldn't have attacked the Kitsune Mori if you didn't want Kitsune enemies (its kinda the same with the Handsome Officer, I just knew that crudely rejecting him would give me a Crane Sworn Enemy. I did it anyway though because the text of the action and its description were very funny).

[Mirumoto Machu]

Jay is Gossip about crane war supposed to still be a random drop for the gossip action?

[The Blue Ronin]

I see what you're saying Manji... although by that logic all attacks on the Fox would grant it. I guess we'll see.

[Tamori Manji]

Not really, Jay usually diversifies the drops obtained from the actions during the war. I can't remember two war actions who had the same "unique drop", like a Sworn Enemy or a position, in a location (more generic mastery drops, like heroic opportunities and troops, do repeat though).

[Kitsune Poxo]

It's a war, how can you not expect to make a few enemies along the way.

[Shosuro Aroru]

...I understand the logic of it costs bamboo so why couldn't you get it elsewhere, but if you actually read the description of the action it tells you you're cutting down trees in the forest. I really think that you should expect a sworn enemy foxwife from that action, since you know it's a possible drop from something.

[Akodo Kenzo]

Jan 23, 2012 10:13:00 GMT -5 The Blue Ronin said:

Jan 23, 2012 1:11:02 GMT -5 Akodo Kenzo said:

Oh, of course. *Now* it makes sense to let established actions remain on the record instead of wiping all that fate expenditure away.

Obviously you've got something to say, so why not just come out and say it? Who exactly are you accusing of hypocrisy here?

I'm not accusing anyone of hypocrisy. I am, however, very frustrated at the arbitrary and inconsistent way in which the battle at CotSS has been handled. Way back when the Dragon were voting on what to do once they realized placed themselves between a castle and an advancing enemy, we were all told the ground rules for what would happen if they chose to press the attack. What's actually happened has deviated from the described scenario significantly.

CotSS is also the only time I'm aware of where voting tallies have been administratively modified while the event is still in play. The fact that it was done once to the benefit of one faction and then not done when it would benefit the other is confusing and, again, very frustrating. While I'm sure there's no actual malfeasance in play here, as a defender it feels as if an already uphill battle is being made more and more difficult as time goes on.

[The Blue Ronin]

You're referring to the scouting missions and know the terrain and all that stuff, I take it?

[Akodo Kenzo]

Specifically, "Know the Terrain" and "Prepare for Battle". Disabling them so that no further clicks can be made on them is one thing. Continuing to perform them in the context of current events wouldn't have made sense. I don't object to turning them off, particularly since new actions were added.

What I do take issue with, however, is that all the clicks already made on those actions no longer count. It's as if they never happened. It took a Dragon lead of over 24k clicks and increased it by another 6300. That's a full 25%. The effect could be charitably described as "demoralizing".

Now with the Crane truce, another situation where actions are being disabled for people because they no longer apply, no retroactive modifications are being made. If any reasons have been given for the discrepancy in how these situations have been handled, I haven't seen them. To be clear, this is only one of multiple issues that I have with how the battle has unfolded. It's simply the biggest at this moment.

[The Blue Ronin]

Well, the reason Crane are being disabled is because a truce is being performed - it would be patently ridiculous to claim that that truce should have somehow resulted in a time warp that went back in time and deleted all the Crane who had been fighting.

While I agree that it's silly to say that the obsolescence of the scouting actions should mean that they have no effect on the battle - even if the feeling-out-the-enemy's-positions stage of the battle has concluded, an advantage gained there would be expected to endure - but it isn't as bizarre as the Crane soldiers being deleted from histroy like something in Doctor Who.

[Akodo Kenzo]

I don't know, I think that 12689 clicks worth of battle preparations having zero impact on the final outcome of the battle counts as bizarre. The most sensible option, obviously, would have been not to go retroactively mucking with click tallies for anyone. Since we've already left the sensible option behind, I simply want to ensure that whatever insensible course of action we take is applied consistently. That doesn't seem unreasonable.

[quarim]

Kenzo I once again point out that Jay already covered this. It was no surprise. He was very upfront about what would happen if the peace treaty went through.

[Hida Joji]

The battle "contest" is also new, came out of nowhere and could be worth a lot. Jay has been trying new stuff with CoTSS, perhaps he came to the conclusion that 3:1 on the attacking dragon army was too much... Even with the, much talked about, Dragon action and insane participation they could not overcame 3:1, perhaps this is a way to "balance" that initial "mistake" ?

What I know is that contest + awesome actions on CotSS put into our, the player's, hands the means to turn this around and send the Meditating self-propelled Brazilian dudes up their mountain.

[Akodo Kenzo]

Jan 24, 2012 3:34:43 GMT -5 quarim said:

Kenzo I once again point out that Jay already covered this. It was no surprise. He was very upfront about what would happen if the peace treaty went through.

The consequences of a successful peace treaty were laid out up front, you're absolutely correct. The problem that I'm trying to point out, however, is that the consequences of a failed attempt by the Dragon to storm CotSS before Toturi arrived were also laid out up front. The former was implemented while the latter was not. Instead of ending up, and I quote, "in serious trouble, caught between a big army and a tough castle," the Dragon were handed a net 6300 clicks from retroactive tally modification. *That* is the inconsistency to which I'm trying to draw attention and the source of my current frustration.

[Tamori Manji]

Ok now, please bear with me for a moment because I'm trying to understand what you're saying Kenzo-san, where exactly do you see Jay saying that the Lion lost their votes on the scouting actions? I've read his post again and I can't find that nowhere. And I can't believe its true since Jay does try his best to be consistent. I can only think that there's a misinterpretation here somewhere.