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Post by Togashi Homsar on Feb 8, 2012 21:06:33 GMT -5
She turned me into a ronin! I got better.
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Shosuro Aroru
Scorpion Clan
Scorpion Clan Ninja * Duelist
Posts: 625
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Post by Shosuro Aroru on Feb 8, 2012 21:07:20 GMT -5
...Eh, not really a problem as I see and others have stated. No real advantage to the swapping save that infamy leaderboard thing and I imagine that will get old for people quick if that's all they do it for.
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Shosuro Honzo
Scorpion Clan
Scorpion Clan * Shosuro Daimyo * Ninja* "Master of Shadows"* Loyal * Unique
Posts: 194
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Post by Shosuro Honzo on Feb 9, 2012 0:11:34 GMT -5
Becoming Ronin should drop your Glory and Honor to 0. That will put an end to hopping, b/c people care for Glory. IIRC, your Glory in the P&P game drops to 0 for Ronin.
According to the L5R wiki, should a samurai become a ronin it was considered a fate worse than death. Most samurai would rather commit seppuku than become ronin. Ronin are REMOVED from the Celestial Order. They rank even lower than ETA!
The penalty for 'Going Ronin' should be huge. Honor and Glory dropping to 0, with an Infamy hit of at least 100 would seem appropriate. And in order to prevent people from 'accidentally' clicking that option, there should be 3 options to pop up if you click to become Ronin:
1) Become Ronin-Drop Glory/Honor to 0, Infamy +100, Gain: Information- Ronin (permanent, unless another Clan takes you in)
2) Commit Seppuku-You decide that becoming Ronin is too distasteful to tolerate. You decide to end your life to preserve your Honor = Character Death
3) Renounce becoming Ronin: You decide that leaving the service of your master is too dreadful to withstand, but you cannot take your own life either. Loss of Honor: -100, Gain Information: Bad Reputation-Disloyal or Bad Reputation: Coward
Also, Ronin should be barred from competing in Winter Court or similar contests, unless they turn in like say, 100 Clan specific Favors to enter.
That's my two cents on the matter. What say you, Jay-sama?
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Post by Shoju on Feb 9, 2012 1:10:06 GMT -5
No one would ever do it for a glory and honor reset.
NO ONE.
While I understand the logic behind it, It's the simple fact that 50 infamy is too light, and 0ing out honor and glory is far too harsh in a game like this.
I wouldn't have done it. Even though Shoju is a ronin in the RP. There is just no way I'm giving up 57k glory and 6k honor for that.
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quarim
Dragon Clan
Merchant*Qolat*Gaijin
Posts: 334
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Post by quarim on Feb 9, 2012 1:13:35 GMT -5
Actually I might be willing to do it for a 0ing out. It's like sepping only you get to keep your stuff. Also if one were to trying and go for top shame boards it would be a way to get on there and still take actions.
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Post by Isawa Okibi on Feb 9, 2012 1:20:04 GMT -5
Well, I could see a spider doing it in order to have access to the low-honor actions (certainly faster than 1000 x -1 honor actions). Any situation can be used by someone for their own 'gain'.
I'm not really that concerned about abuse, so much as the fact that switching clans back and forth is against the theme of the setting. From what I've read of the background material this is an extremely uncommon action, and even less commonly reversible.
I'm of the opinion that any clan change is a drastic action, and should have some sort of lock. This could be an item (unremovable or removable by major quest), or maybe just a crazy cool-down (~100 days?) until you have access to other status changers.
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quarim
Dragon Clan
Merchant*Qolat*Gaijin
Posts: 334
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Post by quarim on Feb 9, 2012 1:25:21 GMT -5
Perhaps a solution to this would be if you leave a clan for any reason you gain "Enemy: (x) Clan". Then you can never rejoin that clan. At most that would limit any player to starting in one clan, marrying into another, becoming spider, and becoming ronin. 3 clans and ronin at most for any player.
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Kakita Mitsouko
Crane Clan Mod
::Daimyo::Kenshinzen::Hatamoto of Crane Clan::Paragon of Duty
Posts: 1,952
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Post by Kakita Mitsouko on Feb 9, 2012 6:36:16 GMT -5
I think it should be -10% Glory 10% glory = infamy
to better reflect what should happen to a samurai who turns into a ronin. 50 infamy is too light, like Shoju said, for vastly experienced characters. A percentage method could serve well both low level characters and high level characters and show if some glory (depending in how much they have) is lost. Though I agree losing everything makes no sense. You don't simple turns into an anonimous person from night to day, but of course lose some prestige.
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Feb 9, 2012 8:45:04 GMT -5
Only one observation. I understand that in Rokugan things are a bit more extreme and static (mainly because of the addition of the Celestial Order) but, usually, a samurai can become a ronin whenever he loses his Lord. That said, when the head of a house died with no heirs (during wars and conflicts with nearby Clans) or the main family was killed (for whatever reason) all the samurai in their employment became ronin. A samurai can also be dismissed by his Lord by whatever reason his Lord comes up with (be them "just" or "unjust") or choose to leave his service willingly (either because of some great injustice committed against him by his Lord or to perform some specific service to his Lord). Perhaps a solution to this would be if you leave a clan for any reason you gain "Enemy: (x) Clan". Then you can never rejoin that clan. I think this wouldn't work (or reflect "reality") because: 1) I have 2 Crane Sworn Enemies already (one was the handsome officer and the other one I got while trying to sabotage the peace agreement) and they do absolutely nothing (I have a Crane ally from somewhere too); 2) this ignores the fact that people may join other Clans to marry, to serve as political hostages (sometimes they changed Clans), to join the families of one of their parents (not without proper justification but it is perfectly possible) or through adoption (a samurai can be adopted by another Lord. Not without some political maneuvering but yes, it can happen).
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Post by Shoju on Feb 9, 2012 9:16:22 GMT -5
You would just need to call it something different than enemy. What is the item you got when you became a ronin was:
Outcast: Clan (x)
Where X is the clan you just left. Then, any action that would check to see if you could join the clan, would jsut have the "May not have Outcast: Clan X" added.
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Feb 9, 2012 9:37:11 GMT -5
Outcast, yes, that's the word I was missing. Good idea Shoju
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Bayushi Hiryu
Scorpion Clan
Scorpion Clan Ninja*Dragon Clan Ally*Samurai*Courtier* Tactician*Chrysanthemum*Inexp Hiryu*Unique
Posts: 217
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Post by Bayushi Hiryu on Feb 9, 2012 12:20:44 GMT -5
I don't believe all this is necessary, as anyway there is not much advantage in becoming a ronin for the moment, except perhaps for the extra token(s), and as ronin-focused missions are likely to be designed to represent the hardships in a ronin's life, therefore being not very attractive to people playing for the leadership boards.
I agree, though, that a significant Glory loss (500 pts?) and potentially the same Infamy gain would be more in line with a ronin's perception than the curren t+50 to Infamy.
Hiryu, Scorpion with no desire to become a ronin soon
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Post by Togashi Homsar on Feb 9, 2012 13:23:03 GMT -5
Outcast, yes, that's the word I was missing. Good idea Shoju What's cooler than being cool?
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Post by Shoju on Feb 9, 2012 13:24:14 GMT -5
ICE COLD!
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Saiko
Spider Clan
Here we stand, at the end of all things...
Posts: 355
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Post by Saiko on Feb 9, 2012 13:26:26 GMT -5
+1 ;D
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