Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Apr 17, 2012 6:29:30 GMT -5
Joji, it was like that for me at Toshi Ranbo, my first battle. Really tried to make a difference there but we ended up losing (and it was then that I changed to a EE exclusive account to increase my Dynasty. I've sacrificed my first character to protect the Emperor). Besides, the Toturi side only took notice of CotSS after the first part of the battle (because, frankly, it was very impossible for us to get 3x1 votes and take the Castle by storm. We did great by obtaining 2.2x, but 3x was way unrealistic), I think that was what made all the difference because after that point, your synergy was more efficient than our alchemy. About peace, well, if I was a Lion I would be worried because if things keep up like this, they'll go extinct ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Seriously now, I agree that it is unlikely, but Kaneka should take what happened at CotSS as a sign that its more useful to solve his differences with his brother by talking them through than by waging a war that threatens the safety of the whole Empire. That said, I am not against a peace effort, I have no interest in keeping CotSS as a Dragon territory after the war is over (I believe none of my Dragon brethren wants it either. We will probably just give it back to the Lion) and I laughed when I've read the option for Kaneka to seppuku after such a crushing defeat (never going to happen, I know, but it was fun to see that the option exists). Unfortunately, its more probable that people will want to continue the war, which is a shame. As an observation, the "finger pointing" regarding the attempted assassination isn't over yet and we don't know if the Scorpion will be blamed for it. Even if they are (which I think every single Toturi supporter will try to do) I don't see a reason to blame the whole Clan by the moral failings of a few. They have proven their loyalty more than once and, if the blame falls with them (as it should), I would sooner have them "investigate", capture and deliver the assassins (after all, who better to find a Scorpion than another Scorpion) than punish the whole Clan and I will speak in their defense when/if the time comes. PS.: I'm also laughing of you saying "the Lion has been molested", poor kitties ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) PPS.: Although sometimes I jest too much, I do favor the peace effort and am willing to support the idea if the Toturi side desires to end the war. I know some of my brethren will be against it but I really just want to get Kaneka and Naseru together so that they can solve this thing once and for all, without further endangering the Empire.
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Post by Shoju on Apr 17, 2012 6:43:36 GMT -5
There have been several "ZOMG that sucks" moments for people in this Civil War.
The Lion are not alone in feeling deflated by something.
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Kenji
Dragon Clan
Otokodate of the Scarab. Ta?sa
Posts: 80
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Post by Kenji on Apr 17, 2012 7:56:56 GMT -5
You don't see me much around these boards, but here's my feeling. I first was a dragon. I pleaded for the Dragon being pro-toturi. It turned to be pro-Hantei by the whim of, as far as I read, a single player. Ok. Sure. Fine. Whatever. I went ronin and participate in every battle / vote for Toturi. It's simply never enough. In the end, I bet this assassination attempt will be blamed on the Lion. Maybe the Spider, but rather on the Lion. I think there's a massive flaw in the game system. One can turn the tide of any event, not by sheer aptitude or luck, but by massive investment. The trick is to have a high fate score and spend it every now and then. One would say : why not ? But when I see the badger - a Toturi supporting clan - being more active against the Lion than against the Dragon, I'd say there's a problem. If I had to change game mechanics, here are what I'd do : Prevent from further clicking "vote actions" once the higher mastery reached : it wouldn't bother anyone to see 20 hantei-guys reaching highes mastery and thus topping 3 active pro-toturi doing the same. It would simply mean that more player think like an Anvil ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Make more actions like the winter warfare one : it values skill specialisation over farming'n'clicking. And high skills + luck could counterbalance the lower ranks of one side. And as said earlier, be more strict with timed actions to allow roleplay and strategic decisions. These are, imho, not so big changes to code : everything has been witnessed before. I know it's quite bad to complain when the game is free and the guy behind it giving their time and effort, but I hope everyone will see mine are constructive critics. As I hope everyone will forgive the frenchman from writing in ugly English ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by Hida Joji on Apr 17, 2012 8:20:30 GMT -5
I would sooner have them "investigate", capture and deliver the assassins (after all, who better to find a Scorpion than another Scorpion) than punish the whole Clan and I will speak in their defense when/if the time comes. I guess it takes a Kitsuki to find a Scorpion... I'm betting a Scorpion investigation will produce entertainingly disruptive results. A Clan is responsible for what it's members do as members are part of what the clan did. No way around it. Except, as Kenji did, go Ronin or commit seppuku to express your point. So if a Scorpion tried to kill the future Empress then the Scorpion as a whole are either responsible or there is disloyalty within their ranks. Same applies for the Dragon. Or to Unicorn, Lion or Crab supporting Hantei over their champion's decision.
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Utaku Mai
Unicorn Clan
*Battle Maiden* *Paragon of Honor* *Goddamn Rockstar*
Posts: 484
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Post by Utaku Mai on Apr 17, 2012 8:33:17 GMT -5
Everyone gets the same amount of fate per day. No one has access to more fate than anyone else. Yes, a higher fate 'pool' means that you can go longer without having to empty your fate, but honestly even among higher level characters I don't think it makes that big of a difference. I have a fate pool of less than 200, and I'm a 200+ level character. Getting even 300 takes no small investment in searching for actions and ring tokens. But even characters with a pool of 300 fate only get one fate point per minute, the same as everyone else. As for putting restrictions on voting actions -- I think it's likely that the majority of casual players rarely go past the 80 clicks it takes to get to emerald mastery anyway. But rewards await for those who go past that point and keep grinding, as we can see what happened with the dragon. I'm willing to say that it's probably impossible for one person to swing a vote action in the way you say (remember that the Toturi/Hantei faction votes needed something like a 60/40 majority). If one person swung the original toturi vote in that direction, then it was because other players either supported it or were ambivalent. It was not the efforts of one person who won CotSS, it was many. As for my part, I fought with it from late January to the end. I had just come of of a serious months-long glory grind so it wasn't like I wasn't used to clicking on the same action over and over again. I also had regular gift-giving agreements with several lions and crabs -- Kenzo, Keisuke, Tsanuri, Joji, etc... and it was kind of fun having that reminder every day that I wasn't fighting alone, and that even the six or seven cavalry I was giving in exchange for barley or scouting reports was all going to the cause. Having my gift-giving menu nearly empty now makes me kind of sad and melancholy. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) And...we lost. It happens. It's disappointing, but it happens. Life is hard when you're a samurai, and things don't always go the way you plan sometimes. Personally, I'm going to try for peace, because there's a crazy-ass tsukai/khadi that's going to *totally ruin everything* if the empire doesn't get its act together and do something. All I need is MOAR KANEKA'S FAVOR PLZ!!!
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Post by Shoju on Apr 17, 2012 8:33:56 GMT -5
Lets stick to things that we can prove please? It was not just one Dragon who swayed the change. That is incorrect and disingenuous to the rest of your well thought out post to say the least.
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Yasuki Chad
Crane Clan
Crab Clan
*Crab Clan Courtier *Experienced *Samurai *Daimyo *Hero *Experienced *Commander
Posts: 476
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Post by Yasuki Chad on Apr 17, 2012 8:35:25 GMT -5
Manji, while we did indeed lose Toshi Ranbo our massive investment there did mitagate the damage so much that the Crane army remained intact, instead of becoming a non-factor in the war. So far the only armies to suffer real defeat are the Mantis and Unicorn. The Mantis have for all appearences been reduced to petty piracy with their army gone. Toturi did not lose by such a margin so I would assume his army is mauled but still a presence. The Dragon won a heroic victory (thank good thats over, clicked whenever I could but still bored to tears by the end of that battle).
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Shosuro Aroru
Scorpion Clan
Scorpion Clan Ninja * Duelist
Posts: 625
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Post by Shosuro Aroru on Apr 17, 2012 8:42:04 GMT -5
...The badger haven't declared for anyone, the only minor clan to declare was the monkey and that was for a player that I don't think even plays anymore. I can't really see it as a flaw that effort is more significant than luck. Most people are already wary of the contests making game decisions since they are limited to people who have that skill as favored. Your complaint is that the power right now is the hands of the "few" who click a lot. That just puts it in the hands of the "few" who happen to have that class skill and happen to have put their points in it. Clicking is the only way to vote without giving some parts of the player pool a huge advantage.
...I completely agree with your stricter timeline points though. Particular in contests, whether one shot or otherwise. Knowing when they're going to end is of huge strategic significance.
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Kenji
Dragon Clan
Otokodate of the Scarab. Ta?sa
Posts: 80
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Post by Kenji on Apr 17, 2012 8:45:30 GMT -5
The winter warfare action was interesting since it was a competition amongst people of the same side, AND against the other side. You had to top your friends to get personal reward, and the whole of you and your friends had to top the ennemy bunch. Sounds much fairer than farming'n'clicking. And it's collective effort. And specialisation. The assassination attempt should have been something like that : the efforts of one should have make him laugh at many. And that would have been perfect, since it was a one click action. There, the investigation on this case is a farm and click action : will end up in favor of the Pro-Hanteï. And skill won't help (come on, 40 in Investigation ? That's nothing with items and a few leveling). My point is : I currently have 75+ UNSPENT skill points. Why should I even bother to spent them by now, since skill is so rarely used ? My equipment allows me to reach requirment, and early click always allows me to get in top ranks for contest, so I can get the boon. That's a bit ankward. And btw please don't "Life is hard when you're a samurai"-me. I'm a player and I come here to have fun. Tasteful and balanced one, like this game was supposed to offer by introducing RP and votes, not "what the point since there are Hard core WOW-like players". If you want to make it more realistic... then make everyone have one vote ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) My bad for the Badger thing. Wrong memories from The Battle Watch keep actions.
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Yasuki Chad
Crane Clan
Crab Clan
*Crab Clan Courtier *Experienced *Samurai *Daimyo *Hero *Experienced *Commander
Posts: 476
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Post by Yasuki Chad on Apr 17, 2012 8:48:40 GMT -5
I would be a fan of battles that had several short timed events. Like say the dragon attack kaneka at the river, we have the standered list of actions. But 2 days into the event an action is added for just a day or two that has a dispopotionent bonus. Like the action is "Find alternate ford". After the Timed event is over give the winners their clicks (Disregard the losers clicks, they were too slow) and give them a battle click bonus (Like add 1000 clicks) to represent their statigic advantage. This rough system, could go far to making the battles varied.
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Kenji
Dragon Clan
Otokodate of the Scarab. Ta?sa
Posts: 80
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Post by Kenji on Apr 17, 2012 8:59:11 GMT -5
"it's probably impossible for one person to swing a vote action in the way you say (remember that the Toturi/Hantei faction votes needed something like a 60/40 majority)"
The 60/40 system exists, I guess, because of the click'n'farm system. If the game relied more heavily on character skills, it wouldn't be unfair to make a 51/49 system.
Just an example. If you have Kakita Toshimoko vs 10 random ashigaru with blades, who will win ? The skilled Grey Crane, or the cannon fodders ?
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Enishi
Dragon Clan
Ninja * shadow * tattooed * Mad prophet of Nothing
Posts: 254
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Post by Enishi on Apr 17, 2012 9:03:46 GMT -5
All skill-based solutions are nice and flavourful but IMHO they disregard the fact that school skills are not taylored with that in mind. Some skills are quite common, others are very rare, and it so happens that the one that sees the most use is one of the rarest. Why are there Lions and Crabs in the Winter warfare Top 10 for Dragon? Because with the Daidoji out of the picture, no one had Battle as a school skill within the Hantei clans.
Emerald Empire does not manage high-level content well. Basically the sky's the limit to what your character can become, but since you don't want to make unexperienced characters feel like they're worthless, being high level has no real use. Every solution I see to this problem (higher skill requirements, battles that encapsulate smaller events, lots of contests) requires a lot more actions in the game. And that's the thing most unlikely to happen, because we know it takes a lot of Jay's time as it is.
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Kenji
Dragon Clan
Otokodate of the Scarab. Ta?sa
Posts: 80
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Post by Kenji on Apr 17, 2012 9:12:18 GMT -5
"with the Daidoji out of the picture, no one had Battle as a school skill within the Hantei clans." You can't complain from making your Battle-skilled guys out of the field while being happy with the political victory that caused it, can you ?
If you read carefully what I wrote, I think the new Winter Warfare mechanic is a perfect one for : big and long events making high level characters use their skill value skill over anything else.
BUT it won't help if the vote is one action in the middle of click'n'farm hell. That's why I suggest to cap the "mundane" actions that makes the "heat of battle" or whatever you need to satisfy click'n'farm player. Vote is of no use if lost in lots of clicks.
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quarim
Dragon Clan
Merchant*Qolat*Gaijin
Posts: 334
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Post by quarim on Apr 17, 2012 9:16:24 GMT -5
I don't thinking taking away click farming is a good idea. But I said before and I'll repeat that I loved the Winter Warfare action and would love to see many more from now on. Even multiples at the same battle. I imagine a sea battle where sailing gets used would be greatly appreciated by all Mantis.
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Yasuki Chad
Crane Clan
Crab Clan
*Crab Clan Courtier *Experienced *Samurai *Daimyo *Hero *Experienced *Commander
Posts: 476
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Post by Yasuki Chad on Apr 17, 2012 9:22:45 GMT -5
And at least one Yasuki.
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