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Post by Shoju on Sept 17, 2013 8:37:37 GMT -5
Also, I'm not opposed to a new facelift to the forums.
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Kakita Mitsouko
Crane Clan Mod
::Daimyo::Kenshinzen::Hatamoto of Crane Clan::Paragon of Duty
Posts: 1,952
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Post by Kakita Mitsouko on Sept 17, 2013 9:20:21 GMT -5
In fact, when I remind EE clicking game and the forums, I can see a panorama of what happened: as people were performing actions, and some of them were just "too curious/whatever you can name it" to simply resist a tainted action, the numbers of Spider clan increased. Increased quickly and beyond expectations, at least to me (and won't find incredible if it was the same feeling Jay felt about the issue). Also, insatisfaction with the alliances their original clans took in the war probably led a lot of players to Spider clan. I played with the idea a lot, first when I allied to Kaneka and my clan, to the Emperor ( I lost a lot of honor in the clicking game, just like Fitsu). Then when I first clicked in a tainted action by mistake. Well, long/sad story, not the focus, but I truly understand some players just could not feel themselves like Empire clans anymore, being so tainted... As many players wished to have equalitarian opportunities, and others, like myself, wished to see the "good versus evil thing" with this traditional fantasy outcome, we all had this frustration feeling. Anyway, whatever the storyline we'll play, I'd like to suggest one thing: a polarizing war as we had in EE is not a good idea. It seemed to be a good idea, but soon everyone discovered it was too polemic. Minor feuds, minor wars, involving 3 or 4 declared sides seems to me, a less dangerous thing. Even if, in some extend, everyone is involved secretly, partially, or openly, in one of the sides. A visual makeover can be a good thing, yes, I hope we can contact Rob soon to know what we can do about plugins, admins, templates and etc. Shoju, I really support your new hierarquic model suggestion... Finally, I liked your suggestion for a storyline startup. Seems simple and something I can see working.
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Kakita Sojiro
Crane Clan Global Mod
When you die, will you be remembered, or will you be just another strand in the tapestry?
Posts: 900
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Post by Kakita Sojiro on Sept 17, 2013 10:08:33 GMT -5
What was Rob's last name? I can try to track him down.
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Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
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Post by Asahina Yukihime on Sept 17, 2013 10:21:12 GMT -5
As the chat box have limited characters:
From my brief talk to Rob, he says he may be able to fully power Shoju without giving him the admin account (which is attached to Rob's e-mail, so he can't give). I don't think it is possible, I mean, I don't think you can have some mod with as much power as the admin, but, Rob may know better.
I think this forum is still running on proboards v4 , when you try to upgrade to proboards v5 (only the Admin can do) you (If I fully remember the process, I have done mine long ago) will have an one time option to fully backup everything, that bkup could be used to load the new place. Doing so (bkup;upgrade) will take some time, that Rob may not have too.
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Saiko
Spider Clan
Here we stand, at the end of all things...
Posts: 355
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Post by Saiko on Sept 17, 2013 10:52:30 GMT -5
Ok, 2 cents time, now that I can actually gather my thoughts.
The Board: Moving was simply the best option in my mind if we couldn't/can't get a hold of Setsuro to shift over the Admin powers. (I was also operating under the assumption that he can't be a part of it/if he did, he probably wouldn't want to be in a position of power). If we are able to simply retool this place for our new purposes and polish it up a bit, well, then that is perfect.
The Story: Shoju's idea is very much along the same lines as the one I had when we were talking about EE2 last year. Not that I can reasonably continue my character, but I feel that keeping the setting in a place where we can still see and feel the repercussions of the actions we made in the original game will be key to bringing some people back.
That being said, we still need to leave room in there for new story development and to make sure that it's not just a sequel, because that would make it inaccessible for new players, which is something else we're gonna have to figure out. So maybe a little bit more of a time jump? Three years, five years even?
Shadylands: This one's tough. I'll come back to this.
Administrative: Shoju, if you wanna take the reins, I'll back you all the way, it was simply that when we were originally discussing things neither Sojiro nor I thought that you would want any kind of responsibility after all the shit you had to put up with previously lol.
As for me personally, I am on a much more consistent schedule than I ever used to be, plus I've been giving myself a crash course in PHP and Proboards, so I am both willing and able to assist in any way I can.
I'm sure I'll have more later
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Post by Shoju on Sept 17, 2013 11:22:57 GMT -5
Well, I wont lie, the idea of sitting back is A OK with me, and there are some who would probably like that (people not currently here), and some that would rather I stayed in it somewhere (people currently here).
I'll put it out there. There are a couple of people I don't get along with. Taeshik, and Kasumi would top that list for sure, and the reasons pretty easy.
With Taeshik, I tried really hard to give him a second chance. And in the messages I had with him, he was absolutely of the opinion that he did nothing wrong, that he was doing nothing wrong, and that everyone else was beneath him. The conversation spiraled out of control quickly.
With Kasumi, she lied. She lied a lot. And she tried to use me to justify her lies and bullying of other people.
There are other people that I've had problems with, I don't have anything against them, but we've butted heads, we've had issues, but I don't think that going forward, it would be a huge problem. I'm not even sure they would be interested in coming back. And, honestly? I can't say that I'd miss them. If they came back, I'm fine with it. If they don't, they don't. I'm willing to give everyone a do over. Even Taeshik and Kasumi.
But with that said, I would want to make sure that we have things codified in such a way that problems like what started the Taeshik issue originally, And the Kasumi issue, are preventable.
As far as story goes, I think 12 months in the future is a good jump. From there, we can start a new story. The war is over. The Shogun is... Dead? I think? Naseru sits on the throne, and 12 months gives time for the war rebuilding to start, and the shadowlands to have licked it's wounds.
There are immense adventures to be had out there, and things we were only beginning to touch on.
We have a Shadowlands in disarray, We have Kolat We have the always brewing tensions between clans We have the new champions jockeying for power.
New Stories are there, ripe for the writing. We could even introduce new things. Ivory Kingdons, The Burning Sands, The Yodotai, The Nezumi, and more.
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Isawa Mitsuru
Phoenix Clan
Shugenja ? Void ? Experienced
Posts: 113
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Post by Isawa Mitsuru on Sept 17, 2013 12:23:43 GMT -5
I agree that there are a lot of stories to be had right out of the gate. Along with that idea one of the big things that can tie the game together is an (at least vague) overarching plot to provide a sense of tension and adventure to the whole setting. I wonder about this 12 months thing because it could dredge up a lot of the old conflicts and make it to sequel-esque. I'm not opposed to it, but it's something to be careful of.
I also wonder what the inciting incident of the game will be. What is it that goes wrong that causes everyone to decide to not be homebodies. I appreciate that there are always little things to do, but what can we do on the large scale to involve players on a heroic level?
On a different note, Shoju, one of the things I AM opposed to is including too much stuff from outside the empire. Minor incursions into the empire and whatever are fine. Rokugan needs to remain the focus of the game and the culture involved with it. If you introduce too much outside influence it starts to dilute the samurai feel of the game. It's one of my big complaints about the current card game. Keep Rokugan for the Rokugani.
Now this just popped into my head, and it may sound a little contradictory to what I just said. As far as movies go, some of the best samurai drama happens at the end of the age of the samurai. A lot of political upheaval and disenfranchised samurai makes for good stories about the true nature of honor and what it really means to be a hero.
Just more thoughts.
EDIT: Now here's an idea (although it might polarize the game too much for some tastes so it's not perfect.) Ok, so let's say we have this tournament of champions. At or around the end, right when everything seems like it will be awesome forever, a new challenger shows up and announces the creation of a new position. In the Shadowlands.
The Spider Clan has decided that it will build a new empire, and a better empire, than the Emerald Empire. They will have their own special champions, magistrates, clans, and EMPEROR, whos tands on the same celestial footing as the Toturi dynasty.
As i write this it doesn't seem as cool as it did in my head, but there you are, more suggestions to feed on.
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Post by Shoju on Sept 17, 2013 12:34:46 GMT -5
Here is where I was thinking.
Start easing back into with the festival, of some name, we'll come up with later. This "ties" it to the other game, giving the old players a feeling of continuity, and the new players the idea that this is an established story.
For reference, we use the Awesome timeline that a Kitsu made here on the boards, and we update it with a smattering of things to make it feel fresh.
At the same time, this serves as a way to 'sever' the ties of the previous game. we are 12 months into the future, we could move even further if we wanted. But I really like where this timeline is going.
To make sure that people aren't homebodies, I had 2 thoughts.
1.) The Kolat Wars. The Kolat have decided that in the rebuilding of the empire, now is the time to strike, and remove the celestial influence of man, at a time when it is at it's weakest (non divine emperor, empire rebuilding from a war fought on two fronts)
This keeps it "rokugani" in a sense, but allows for some very interesting "incursions" into the empire from the Qolat, and the burning Sands folks. Also, with Burning Sands "backing" the Kolat / Qolat will be a mighty force to be reckoned with, and with the chaos of such a fierce, and bloody war, old tensions create strange bedfellows, and stances to be had in the war.
2.) Bloodspeakers. And by this, I mean "real" Iuchiban resurrecting, steal your babies and eat their souls type bloodspeakers who are hell bent on Placing Iuchiban in a position of divine power of some sort. This is way more "by the book" style conflict, with little outside interference (outside rokugan), but it is sort of a "been there, done that" sort of thing.
And a bonus idea that just came to me. The corruption of the elements. Elemental Magic is being corrupted, the celestial dragons are being driven mad, and the elements themselves scream out in agony as everything is thrown out of balance. Shugenja across the land pay a hefty price for their power, some going as mad as the very elements they represent. This could be accomplished several ways. Assassination of Oracles, throwing the balance out of line, the Shadow Dragon kidnapping his brethren, Fu Leng, Maho (a stretch), and so on and so forth.
Those are just the ideas I've come up with recently.
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Utaku Mai
Unicorn Clan
*Battle Maiden* *Paragon of Honor* *Goddamn Rockstar*
Posts: 484
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Post by Utaku Mai on Sept 17, 2013 12:42:40 GMT -5
I'm not entirely sure a year is long enough, there's still potential for a lot of fallout from the 'Phase 1' stories as it were. Like Mitsuoko I'm fine with taking it a generation ahead. To be fair, so long as there's a good inciting incident, any time period could work. So there's a new tournament to determine the next set of clan champions -- ok, then what? What crazy big plot interrupts this whole thing and creates something you can really sink your teeth into with delicious RPs? As for the snake clan -- I don't know. I definitely have a bias toward purity, and even though I can even see remnants of the Tamehei trying to overcome their family's history and make a place in Rokugan as a really engaging plot hook -- but I cannot fathom such a family getting anything close to Imperial approval (minor clans are officially under the protection of the emperor to avoid political bullying by the great clans), so it would basically be a family of ronin, with all the problems typical of the same, except with the added benefit of everyone just looking for evidence of taintiness or blood magic so they can wipe them off of the map again. Also not a fan of the Ivory Kingdoms, Iweko, or other markers of the current metaplot...heck, I'm fine with starting over from the second day of thunder and just rewriting the story from scratch, but that's just my own biases coming out again edit: this is what I get for taking so long to write my post, without seeing what has been posted in the interim -- my husband summarizing my feelings first
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Isawa Mitsuru
Phoenix Clan
Shugenja ? Void ? Experienced
Posts: 113
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Post by Isawa Mitsuru on Sept 17, 2013 12:43:36 GMT -5
I like these ideas.
As a suggestion (Not for you, Shoju, but in general) a three way confllidt will be much less polarizing than a one on one conflict. It also removes the boolean value of which side is ultimately in the right and which is in the wrong.
Shadowlands + Kolat at the same time could work well, for example.
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Utaku Mai
Unicorn Clan
*Battle Maiden* *Paragon of Honor* *Goddamn Rockstar*
Posts: 484
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Post by Utaku Mai on Sept 17, 2013 12:58:45 GMT -5
I can see that working -- and vote-based results of things that decide, for example, where to put imperial or clan resources could lead to choosing between two less-than-stellar options, which allows a third party to build power and slip through the cracks. Cracking down on the Kolat means fewer resources to reinforce the Crab at the wall, for example. Fighting the shadowlands at the wall allows bloodspeakers in the woods to stay under the radar. Breaking up the largest cult leaves the Kolat alone to plot.
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Post by Shoju on Sept 17, 2013 12:59:47 GMT -5
I could be ok with a generational gap. It would make my own personal ideas for RP work out better. If I do something Snake Clan Related, I highly doubt that they would be an organized minor clan. They would just be "where I'm coming from" as an RPer. They would be building upon some of the ideas that I had(ve) about Maho, and purifying it (to it's original Isawa era use). In a Kolat War, I would almost see them siding with the Kolat, and gaining the protection of them, if nothing else *shudders* A kolat / qolat war, with Shadowlands interference on the side would be interesting. As you let your bias show through (it's ok ) I'll let mine show through a little. I tire of the same old same old from the Shadowlands. OH NOES! A GUY IS SCARY AND LEADS AN ARMY OF MONSTERS TO DESTROY US! FUUUUU LENG FUUU LENG FUUU LENG (read that last part as a chant if you will) The Shadowlands, until given great clan status were very lacking depth. They had no end game. They were a dog chasing a car. What would motivate them to attack during the kolat war? OH HEY! THEY'RE BUSY! QUICK! While they aren't looking! Smack, Thwack, kick to the chin, back into place they go, brooding again. They are a Scooby Doo villain, and have been for a very long time. Great Clan status in Canon, gave an interesting place for the Spider to occupy. Their machinations became deeper, and less stereotypical, fodder. (If you haven't noticed, I'm a fan of The Shadowlands, The Empire, etc...) If the Shadowlands are going to get into something, It's going to need to be a big deal, or it's just /yawn for me. If we can make it work, great. If it's just going to be a Shadowlands attacking again, because someone else is attacking the empire, and it's a chance to divide and conquer, I'd rather not.
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Utaku Mai
Unicorn Clan
*Battle Maiden* *Paragon of Honor* *Goddamn Rockstar*
Posts: 484
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Post by Utaku Mai on Sept 17, 2013 13:17:11 GMT -5
One thing I always liked about Way of The Crab is how bleak the whole situation is at the wall, and how very close they are to being completely overrun all. the. time. The battle at the wall is constant, and only a thousand years of defensive warfare, scouting, and straight-up toughness has kept the battlefield more-or-less even, but it's always just barely. And when it really requires the rest of the Empire to rally together to fight, it has to overcome a lot of very human weaknesses and failings. How many times have the Crane waged economic warfare on the Crab, more-or-less putting the entire empire at risk for shiny toys and political power?
Add to this the plain old corruption that everyone is susceptible to -- the siren call of maho-feuled power to destroy one's enemies, summoning an oni to wage a campaign of revenge, the shugenja who is just too curious not to try blood magic, etc etc.
All of these things bolster the shadowlands, and give them footholds in the empire.
This is why it's a problem putting shadowlands vs. empire on equal footing. Pretty much everyone recognizes that the shadowlands is bad, and will always vote against it when the options are so clear-cut. What you want to create is a lot of temptations. A few situations where if you choose what's right and honorable, you lose, and if you chose something a little shady, you win with no immediate consequences. A bunch of little things that knowingly or not help the cause of the horde and fu leng down the line, while at the same time making purity something difficult and often inconvenient.
The bad guys have to lose (otherwise you just end up with a KYD-type scenario, which admittedly can also be fun), but it has to be hard-won on the part of the good guys in order to be at all meaningful.
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Post by Shoju on Sept 17, 2013 13:46:28 GMT -5
And I dont' disagree that winning the "war" is the end game of the good guys, but in EE the first go around, there was little to no existence of "wins" in terms of small battles by the Spiders, that they had any direct influence on.
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Utaku Mai
Unicorn Clan
*Battle Maiden* *Paragon of Honor* *Goddamn Rockstar*
Posts: 484
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Post by Utaku Mai on Sept 17, 2013 13:49:34 GMT -5
Definitely, I agree that straight-on assault isn't the way to do it. It was a sudden fit of evolution that caused Daigotsu to civilize the horde and start making the shadowlands play the empire's own game. Is this how it should be handled in our game? I couldn't say, but it could be something to explore.
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