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Post by Soshi Kiso on Apr 26, 2011 17:52:16 GMT -5
roflmao!!!!! I've gotten some "clues"! I wonder if I could save enough up to trade them for a "reason", or if I get enough.......a "purpose"!
(I realize this joke is lost on........just about everyone.....unless you too have seen Troma's "Bacon Head" Either way, it totally made my day!!!)
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Shiba Kazuma
Phoenix Clan Mod
Phoenix Clan Champion?Samurai?Shiba's Soul?Unique?Enlightened
Posts: 369
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Post by Shiba Kazuma on Apr 26, 2011 17:55:00 GMT -5
To quote another game entirely, "Hell, it's about time." Purge the taint! Would this other game possibly have three races and have kept fans waiting 12 years before they came out with a sequel?
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Post by tadakasan on Apr 26, 2011 17:58:28 GMT -5
You though, I think there should be a benefit for being tainted; it's the way evil works, luring you in by promises of better things and more power. To be sure there should definitely be more jobs that have a maximum taint, but tainted characters ~should~ have it too easy; otherwise there's no lure to it, not draw towards corruption how it should be, a choice between ethics and power.
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Kakita Shinji
Crane Clan
Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone
Posts: 485
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Post by Kakita Shinji on Apr 26, 2011 18:14:28 GMT -5
Don't tainted already have benefit in form of dozens of actions they can perform and bunch of items (unique too) they get?
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Kitsu Hiraku
Lion Clan
Sodan-senzo * Loyal to the Emperor
Posts: 197
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Post by Kitsu Hiraku on Apr 26, 2011 18:22:55 GMT -5
Actions: Well not really. Theres only a few actions that require taint. And there are some that do not allow tainted characters. Some awesome ones (Reihado Shinsei anyone?) And the items: Yes there are some But they only work for spider characters. Others have nothing, just taint.
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Shagi the Mad
Crane Clan
Fallen Crane * Scout * Mad * Shadowlands * Experienced 4 Hiruma Shagi
Posts: 180
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Post by Shagi the Mad on Apr 26, 2011 18:27:20 GMT -5
On the subject of infamy: I wouldn't mind seeing different requirements for varying levels of infamy.
Example: an Etiquette job could require: - 4 Etiquette if Infamy <10 - 16 Etiquette if 9 < infamy <100 - 64 Etiquette if 99 < infamy < 1000 - 256 Etiquette if 1000 < infamy
After all, even the most notorious can get ahead if they know how to behave in certain circumstances!
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Post by tadakasan on Apr 26, 2011 19:15:47 GMT -5
Ooooh, I do like that idea Shagi. May have come up before, but it's still pretty cool none-the-less.
As far as what you said Shinji; yes, and that's the way it should be, was my point. Was also agreeing with Ojii that there could be more non-tainty missions out there; Just needs to not go too far so that being tainted stops feeling like an advantage, because it should be (due to there being no "lure" to go to the darkness, as I said).
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Kitsuki Yuushahime
Dragon Clan
This person sometimes posts things that are tl;dr
Courtier Magistrate Ambassador Daimyo
Posts: 1,140
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Post by Kitsuki Yuushahime on Apr 26, 2011 20:10:43 GMT -5
You forget one thing Daisuke... you can become enlightened and do the good jobs and then move on to the bad jobs. However, you can't ever do the bad jobs if you want to continue to be good.
It's more difficult playing a no infamy/no taint character than a tainted one or even just one with a little infamy. It's good that the path is difficult, as a righteous or honourable path should be. It is, to an extent, its own reward.
However, please do not say "ah but we can't do that" when you can. You just need to plan your descent better... *points to Tadaka* SEE! He is enlightened and still crazy evil! Ha! That man has smarts!
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Shosuro Aroru
Scorpion Clan
Scorpion Clan Ninja * Duelist
Posts: 625
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Post by Shosuro Aroru on Apr 26, 2011 20:48:21 GMT -5
...For tainted I have less of a problem than for infamy. Taint represents a real physical affliction possesion by evil, infamy is just others look down upon you and in reality it's quite easy for a person to be infamous to a certain clan and revered in another. Besides, there's way too much infamy focused stuff out there to make it feasible as a limiting factor.
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Post by Shoju on Apr 26, 2011 22:01:54 GMT -5
You forget one thing Daisuke... you can become enlightened and do the good jobs and then move on to the bad jobs. However, you can't ever do the bad jobs if you want to continue to be good. It's more difficult playing a no infamy/no taint character than a tainted one or even just one with a little infamy. It's good that the path is difficult, as a righteous or honourable path should be. It is, to an extent, its own reward. However, please do not say "ah but we can't do that" when you can. You just need to plan your descent better... *points to Tadaka* SEE! He is enlightened and still crazy evil! Ha! That man has smarts! As someone who started out as a Spider, before Spider had a very "realistic" way to get out of the starting area without taint, I humbly disagree. You had to have known exactly what you were looking for and what you were trying to do to be a spider that started out and would still be able to do enlightenment. Even the most "enlightened" spider that I know of is on his second character because his first was too tainted to participate in things during Winter Court. You say it is easier, because you are looking at it from the "Well, we can just do whatever it is that we want." Sure.... you could look at it that way, and that is a valid way to play. But then look at someone like myself who played the infiltration line to completion. COMPLETION. That means that I farmed up 700+ favors for a job series. Now, do that when you have negative honor, infamy, and taint. There were some jobs that I was locked out of that would have made this a far more easy task. I think the number of jobs that I'm locked out of due to my Taint, Dishonor and Infamy is pretty comparable to the number of jobs that you are locked out of by not wishing to be tainted. If you Place a further restriction on yourself by not wanting infamy, that is another thing. That would be like myself deciding that I'm not going to do ANY job that gives positive glory, or positive honor.
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Kakita Shinji
Crane Clan
Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone
Posts: 485
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Post by Kakita Shinji on Apr 27, 2011 1:20:38 GMT -5
Actions: Well not really. Theres only a few actions that require taint. And there are some that do not allow tainted characters. Some awesome ones (Reihado Shinsei anyone?) And the items: Yes there are some But they only work for spider characters. Others have nothing, just taint. Not really. Actions for tainted = ones that require it but mostly ones that give it. If I'm playing untainted character, then I'm not visiting tainted geishahouses, tainted mines, I don't socialise with bloodspeakers, I don't gather goblin army i'm not performing rituals, not spreading disease. I'm not goblin warmonger, don't have obsidian armor, nor mark of 9th kami. And that's just some actions and items that I've heard of/seen on other players. Reihado Shinsei is perfect example, but it's pretty much only one. So I still hold Mirumoto Ojii's side - there should be more limitations on jobs. PS. Others also get such a disastrous droprate of clues? So far 3 in 20 attempts + 1 for mastery :/
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Bayushi Senshi
Scorpion Clan
Scorpion Clan * Clan Champion * Samurai * Kensai * Experienced * Loyal * Unique
Posts: 1,891
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Post by Bayushi Senshi on Apr 27, 2011 2:20:51 GMT -5
as an infamous one, I'll go ahead and say right now that its not a hindrance to the game in any way shape or form. Don't let anyone convince you that it changes anything, if anything it got me more actions to click on.
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Post by tadakasan on Apr 27, 2011 2:44:22 GMT -5
I'm at 4+1 for mastery in 14 tries myself. Not stellar but looks to be 1/3 or 1/4 or so depending on your luck.
Really, a point Shoju brought up is by far the most important point of the entire discussion about taint and missions though; It's not about limitations. "Purist" characters without Taint or Infamy aren't unable to do the missions they're talking about; they simply chose not to due to not wanting those statistics for their characters. In fact, actually having knowledge of such things, I can say for certain there are a lot more missions that have a maximum taint, maximum infamy, minimum honor, or minimum glory then the almost lack of ones on the flip side.
Instead, it's all about unwanted statistics. Tainted and Infamous characters have less missions they -can- do, but purist characters have many many more missions they -choose- not to do. This is because there is no tainted equivalent; purists don't want taint or infamy, but there really aren't that many tainted characters out there that you'll find avoiding glory or honor (they are out there though). There are just no stats that a tainted character does not want.
As far as the whole what to do about it goes, this is all I have to say again, for better or worse in all its ambiguity; What you want for your character besides just levels and rings is ~supposed~ to be a choice you should have to weigh; do you fall to the dark side for the power it gives you but doom your character to being ostracized in RP and selling his soul irreversibly? Do you stay totally pure, shunning the easy power of ignoring honor for the knowledge you will be known as a good person? Or do you take some sort of middle route, perhaps doing some inglorious missions, dishonorable ones, or possibly infamous ones, but mostly keep in the bounds of society?
Shouldn't be an easy choice, which it really would be if tainted offered no benefits (no offense to those who choose to be Spider or tainted off the bat for RP reasons). But then, I suppose I'm typically not a "dark side" kinda person.
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Post by Soshi Kiso on Apr 27, 2011 6:35:38 GMT -5
I have to agree with Tadaka, and yes, I'm one who has chosen the no infamy/taint life. Acting within the bounds of normal rokugani standards is to be it's own reward. It's not going to be as easy as the guy who is willing to take shortcuts, bully people around, trade in black market items, or even accept a little taint. Although I could see the possibility of 1 mission, that gives an item like "Soul of Pure Honor" that requires no taint/infamy....but thats pretty much it. Otherwise if you really want all those other things, you already know what you need to do. =P Will just make this Scorpion look even better! On a side note, this discussion doesn't really have anything to do with this news thread beyond the fact we're tracking down bloodspeakers. If people want to discuss it further, I really suggest a new thread in the General section. But I have a feeling people will just be stuck with their original opinions....
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Hiruma Koji
Crab Clan
Hiruma * Crab * Scout * Hiruma Daimyo
Posts: 96
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Post by Hiruma Koji on Apr 27, 2011 12:17:17 GMT -5
Counter-argument: Perhaps taint provides some bonus to skills for giving access to a few of them: but! Tainted characters also have to deal with random witch hunters finding them within the Empire and possibly killing them. Or once someone become's tainted up to a certain degree you start to lose fate points (because you lose control of yourself, go mad, etc.)
My thought is that while tainted characters have a minor bonus and minor drawback, we're still set. But if you want to draw on the Taint to fuel your powers, then you should also deal with the consequences of that.
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