Roleplaying on this Forum: A Clarification

[Shoju]

Through several PM's, and conversations that I have seen from other moderators, and Cbox talk, there is something that needs to be understood about Roleplaying on this forum.

Roleplaying that takes part on this forum does not in any way dictate events in the Emerald Empire Facebook game.

Your first reaction is, "BUT! I HAVE SEEN THAT IT DOES!" No. You have seen Jay use the Rp that has happened here, as the basis for actions in the Emerald Empire Facebook Game. That doesn't mean he uses every RP. You need to approach RPing on this forum as RPing within the Source Material that Jay puts out. He is the one in charge of the story at the Facebook Game Level. He is the one who decides what ideas to use, what stories to go with. Think of the EE game as your DM and his trusty guide, and sometimes he rewards you for creative thinking.

Jay has in fact, gone in different directions than the RP of players. It is his story, and if he wants to do something different that is his prerogative. All we ask if is that happens, you roll with the punches. Lately, I have seen people getting bent out of shape about the way certain RP events have been handled, things have been decided, etc... because "too much is being decided" in whatever way you don't like.

The truth is, Jay is the only one who decides how to do things. He has used ideas of players, and he has done things differently than players. Everyone can point to times when he has used the ideas of players. I can personally point to times when he has done something different. You need look no further than what the spider were trying to do at the beginning of the civil war, and what actually happened in the FB game. They didn't match, and WE had to adjust. Our RP was not taken into account for that decision. That is his call. Not ours. And it isn't your call either.


Read this part very carefully, because this has come up several times lately. If the author of the thread isn't God Moding, or Metagaming, We aren't going to intervene and tell them that they need to change the thread. If they decide to use a poll, and the poll ends in a result that is unfavorable to you, I'm sorry, that is the way the ball bounces sometimes. The appropriate action is to discuss it rationally. Do not get angry. Do not throw a tantrum in the thread, or in the Cbox, and certainly do not start flaming someone over it.

All of these things are against the forum rules, and will result in action taken by moderators and admins.

As I have stated before, we are just players, just like you. Many of us, voted to moderator status by our peers within our clan. I myself, started out as a 2 star mod. We are not Gm's. We are not here to bend the RP to your whim, or our whim, or anything like that. The Author of the RP you are participating in, and sometimes several other people with him, are telling a story, and want your input in the story, but that doesn't give you the right to treat them poorly, or accuse them of wrongdoing when something happens that you don't like.

Please read the intro post to an RP carefully, and make sure you understand what is going on before joining an RP. This is just common sense, but after a recent problem with this situation, it bears repeating. If someone has an RP running and you would like to be involved, the best thing to do is to PM them first. Remember that the other people in the RP, including the author are just people like yourself.

Above all, respect the other players. This goes for mods / players / new players / EVERYONE. If an RP has you livid, get up, walk away. Come back to the boards when you can calmly, form a Private Message. PM people, and try to resolve the problem. If you can't, Follow the Chain from 2 star on up.

This place is supposed to be a community for a game. Keep that in mind.

[Tamori Manji]

A very nice and smart post Shoju, I agree completely with your opinions on this matter. I just hope the other players take these valuable advices to heart, because they pretty much touch the essence of what we do here.

We are basically telling stories to each other in these forums, it is an effort from players to players about a game we all love. Fortunately for us, the guy who codes the game (Jay Luo) is open to suggestions and have inspired many actions in the game based in our actions here. But that is a boon, not something we should take for granted. Like Shoju, many other times I've seen entire RP threads or efforts having to be discarded or adapted because of the "in game" actions (a recent one would be the Scorpion efforts to be "neutral" during the War). We have to remember that many people who play the game doesn't frequent the forums, so, not always what we decide as a Clan will happen. What do we do then? We adapt.

Like Shoju said, it's always nice and polite to contact the people whose threads you wish to join beforehand (be it through PM, CBox or even an OOC post in the thread). This helps people know if they really want to join in a particular storyline.

We are all (or at least most of us are) adults here, I think we can perfectly talk to one another to solve our conflicts. And, since we don't have dices in these forums, our only means of solving disputes is through talk. Being pissed off at someone, reacting angrily, trolling and things like that will never help the development of an story. Your character can be angry, can curse the Heavens and scream all he wants in the RP threads (if that is part of the story) but you, the player, screaming at other people and losing patience will never help anyone. I don't mean that we don't get angry, I surely do, that's only natural. Heated responses are also bound to happen, from times to times. But I think we are all mature enough to know how to deal with it, to recognize when we were wrong and to reach agreements.

If you don't agree with an story being told, wish to integrate an story into another or simply wish to know what the players in a thread are planning to do, talk to them. Send them a PM politely asking these questions or raising others of your own. If you dislike characters, players or an specific storyline for any reason, you can always simply avoid them, instead of kicking the hornet's nest. No one here is obligated to RP with anyone, we do it because we like. So this has to be a joint effort.

Last, but not least, the mods are where they are because they were either elected to represent their Clans or chosen by Setsuro. They have a right to be there and should deserve, for their service, at least a base of respect upon which they can build. If you don't agree with a moderator's decision, talk to him politely, or ask the opinion of another moderator who is neutral on the matter. Head butting with moderators will help no one in the forums and will probably get you banned, there's no point to it. The power they have comes from us, the players, so, its up to us to talk to them and counsel them but also accept their judgments. They were elected for that, to bear the responsibility of moderating conflicts.

And, remember, if you get angry for ANY reason, Kasumi will always appear out of nowhere with those weird "love is in the air" videos of hers. You don't wanna that

[Bayushi Haruka]

Based on Cbox chatter at the time and out of general understanding I get the feeling that most people don't entirely understand what we're on about in the aforementioned post.

In all truth and fairness, no one is exempt of course from our examples and if you feel that one mod has stepped over the line, feel free to contact another to address it. This of course does not have to be a mod from your clan. The only reason we have it set up as such is because of the secrecy of the private forums for each clan and we'd like a set of eyes on each naturally.

Beyond that all mods are at your disposal of course. Disposal, not for your abuse mind you :3

---

All that being said, we've needed a bit of clarification on what we mean when we want you all to have healthy debates as it were.
So some examples here would be:

Use of Emotional words and/or namecalling.
Aka: Flame baiting (Argument instigating.)

Yogo Soandso said:
"I think that the whole mantis being all on Kaneka's side and then turning around and killing the Lion in their roleplays is stupid. I mean come on really!?!
It's like the game doesn't even matter, and I think they're all big fat stupid jerks...zomg I'm a Scorpion."

Vs:
"I think that the mantis having sided with Kaneka and then posting on the boards about killing Lion on their boats is a bit questionable. I don't like it."

It doesn't take fancy words or having to agree with other people to post, and we all know this war has stirred the hearts of many players. This is a good thing of course! We all love to have such passionate flames behind our game and our characters. But unfortunately whenever you start spouting off in a thread you really mar the only face we see.
We don't know who you are, I'm sure none of the mods are going to stalk over to your facebook page and scope out to see if you've posted about having a bad day. In short, we really don't want to have any of it here even if you are having a bad day. If you can't control yourself for the good of everyone, we will be happy to deal with the situation as it arises. And we're even happy to retrain those that need some reminding. But for those who don't we regrettably will do as we must to correct the situation to prevent further harm to the mood of the thread and all viewers.

Similar possible offenses maybe you didn't know about:

Aggressive wording
RP situations can be fairly aggressive at times, and typically this is because the two authors have agreed for it to be as such. However OOC we are all not actually in a war, we are not enemies here and we want to keep such talk as completely civil as possible.

Use facts and reasonable wording in your posts especially if you have to counter someone else's point.
Re-read all that you do write ooc, think of it from a neutral reader or the person you're disagreeing with's perspective. If it would incite some sort of angry result in your mind, imagine what it's going to make them feel like.

I hope this helps to better explain what we're trying to illustrate here.

The mods are more than aware that everytime there's a new update on the war actions, tensions flare. But if you really want to let loose, I give this advice to everyone take it to in character >:3
Call people out there, rp, have fun and let it out in a creative way! Just make sure to be reasonable, as I think you'll find collaborating with people even on the opposing side can be more enlightening than you first would think.
We're all in this together, and *fingers crossed* soon the war will be over.

[sprinkles]

I don't disagree with the spirit of us all getting along and taking the time to settle disputes peacefully. I try that myself quite often. BUT I highly disagree when the mods start throwing out the "ban" word. Before these forums existed EE had it's own forum where we talked and there was no mods. Many of us were against this forum taking it's place and for this very reason. No player should have an influence on anothers.

I've had this argument with Setsuro before and we've always been reasonable with each other I believe. This forum is larger than the old one and it helps to have people help catch cheaters and assist players. But the mod title should rarely give anyone the right to ban someone short of cheating, or short of out right attacking someone. And when I say that I don't mean "You're cheating, you suck" I mean "You're a #################################".

I have many people I speak to who play the game that want nothing to do with the forum and the reason is the mods. I have had issues with them before but I've always found them to be reasonable and I have spoken up for you guys. But threatening to ban people is not right I believe. You are driving people away. I don't say that lightly. I know of 2 people who quit the game outright and several more who continue to watch but won't post because of how often when a situation gets out of hand instead of trying to resolve it peacefully the "ban notice" comes out.

I read the post on the boards that supposedly lead to this. I did not get to see the Cboxv chat. But what I saw was reasonable disagreement. Senshi appeared out of line to me. Maybe more happened that I didn't see but what I did see he was in the wrong. Please understand I do not wish to start a war over this. I just think the mods need to remember these forums became the games main forum so we could have more fun. That fun is stripped when another player can threaten you just because of a disagreement. I do believe we all need to act professionally and treat each other with respect. I'm sure many of these arguments will come to a happy conclusion once everyone has had their say. Sometimes players just want to vent when they get frustrated. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it doesn't get out of hand. If it does then by all means a friendly reminder will usually be all that is needed. Beyond that lets keep our heads before anyone gets banned and ask is this person angry and do they have the right to be? If the answer is yes then perhaps it can be talked out. If the answer is no then it should be handled on a case by case scenario.

[Bayushi Haruka]

As of late there have been certain situations where the threat of banning has been hung over people's heads. I've seen it far too often certainly, but just so that we're all in understanding, bans aren't obviously handed out willy nilly. The only time we've ever implemented such an action was when the rule breaking was obvious and belligerent, and the decision was unanimous.

There will always be much consideration before any sort of permanent action is acted upon. I cannot say that we will never mention it, because I cannot speak for all the other mods in this respect.
But very few people have been banned, and understand that such things do not occur without all of the mods knowledge, and say. If you feel threatened, this is another thing to bring to the mods attention. We've a whole list to choose from, but I'd recommend picking a mod who has no interest in the situation for such a circumstance.

[Shoju]

Sprinkles,

I'm not a Mod. I am an Admin. Throwing out the Ban word isn't something that I want to do. I don't want to ban anyone. But, if I have a person who is making my life difficult, and the lives of the people on this forum difficult, then sometimes, I'm sorry to say, the whole thing would work better if it happened.

People freak out when they hear the word "ban". But, to be honest, how many people have been banned from here? The answer? Not that many.

Honestly, I'm sorry that those people feel that way. I'm sorry that they are turned off by that. I would assume that they have very little experience with forum communities relating to games if that is their stance though. I am a forum rat. I'm a member of many forums, I am a mod on several, and avid poster on probably half a dozen. All of them have rules, codes of conduct, and 'discipline policies' for those who break the rules and code of conduct.

No one will be banned unless it comes from an Admin. To be clear, that is Setsuro, Tomatsu, Jay Luo, Alison, and myself, and even then, it will be discussed to death in the mod forum before it happens.

I don't plan on IP banning anyone, which is the only way that they would not be able to navigate to the forums, and find pertinent information. The few people who have ever been IP banned from this site have all circumvented the rules, and taken things to an extreme.

I keep hearing. "People don't like the mods, people don't like the mods, people think that the mods aren't right."

Who do they have a problem with
Why do they have a problem with them

I keep hearing these vague statements like this, but no details to substantiate it. You will not find too many forums on the internet that have no moderators, that have no sort of management system in place, especially when you are dealing with a place like this, which has a large amount of posts, a large amount of moving parts, and a large amount of things that not everyone can see.

Listen, if there was something else I could do to curtail the problem, I would. What am I going to do? Give them a virtual slap on the wrist? If you break rules, there are consequences. This is a forum. if you break the rule, the first time, you get to have a conversation with someone about why what happened isn't cool.

The second time, you are restricted from posting for 72 hours.

The third time? Yeah... that time you aren't going to be posting any longer.

This wasn't started or spurred by any single post. This has been brewing and festering in Posts, PM's, and CBox problems. Don't mistake this for a single post that caused this.

You are right, this is the Game's main forums. And while I spout on about how we are just players like you, being a mod does carry a high level of responsibility. Unfortunately, these forums need to be moderated. Not everyone is going to agree with everything that happens here. But there is far too much hostility about the RP that has been happening lately. Not everyone is going to get along, like each other and what not.

In terms of RP, if you end up in an RP you don't like, Excuse yourself, move on. Starting flame wars in Pm's, posts, and the Cbox isn't the answer.

[sprinkles]

I could give examples but I won't. What I will say is that a large portion of the community was against these forum being created because they didn't want a "place like this" where other players could influence their game. Being an admin or a mod comes with the territory of being disagreed with and argued with. I don't believe it's in anyone's best interest to lose more players. I'm not saying banning should NEVER happen but it should be used on a case by case basis not a blanket statement.

[Shosuro Aroru]

....The problem comes down to this though, Mods are shutting things down when they don't break any rules. I'm sorry, things getting heated in your opinion isn't a rule and shouldn't be. If it's not an outright personal attack, then it doesn't matter if it's phrased in a "rude" manner. I have brought specific examples of moderators breaking the rules themselves or exerting authority in an inappropriate manner before to Rob. I have always run these examples by other members of this forum or moderators on other boards first before bringing it up to make sure it's not just my opinion.

..."But, if I have a person who is making my life difficult, and the lives of the people on this forum difficult, then sometimes, I'm sorry to say, the whole thing would work better if it happened." You combine this with your complaint in cbox about people leaving the board because of the actions of other members and you don't get a positive look at yourself. What it comes off as is people leaving because of other members is bad and the other members should be blamed. People leaving because of moderators though is fine and is the fault of the people leaving, not the moderators.

[Shoju]

Oct 10, 2011 12:05:35 GMT -5 @sprinkles said:

I could give examples but I won't. What I will say is that a large portion of the community was against these forum being created because they didn't want a "place like this" where other players could influence their game. Being an admin or a mod comes with the territory of being disagreed with and argued with. I don't believe it's in anyone's best interest to lose more players. I'm not saying banning should NEVER happen but it should be used on a case by case basis not a blanket statement.

If you don't give examples, it is just more vague statements that aren't substantiated by anything, and I can't work to make things better. If you don't want to post things publicly, by all means, drown me in PM's about it, because at this point, All I know is that "some people who are nameless" have problems with "moderators who are nameless" about situations "that are never discussed". Which, sadly sounds more like propoganda, than an actual problem.

I will agree with being disagreed with, but being argued with? Absolutely not. Stepping up and doing more for the community doesn't give someone the right to argue with you. There is a distinct difference between a disagreement, and an argument. I'm still a human being. I still have emotions, and feelings, and what not. Being a Moderator doesn't mean that you should be "ok" with someone arguing with you.

I was there, and I don't remember a huge outcry when these boards were discussed, talked about, implemented, or the announcement that they were moving these boards to be the official boards. Most of the community was in favor of these boards is how I remember it.

What is a Place "like this" and how does someone else "Influence 'their' game?" I guess I don't follow what you mean by that. No one is forced to be here. They aren't forced to RP here. You dont' even need an account here to be a part of the discussion the way you were on the facebook boards.

This board is bigger, and offers more options for the people that wanted more options, and other than that, you can continue to be a part of this board the same way you were the Facebook board. It just looks different.

If you are taking my statement of someone getting banned as a blanket statement, you either think that people get in trouble all the time, or that we just drop ban bombs on people all the time.

The entire list of bans is 13 entries long, and there are multiple entries for several.

[Shoju]

Oct 10, 2011 12:09:54 GMT -5 Shosuro Aroru said:

....The problem comes down to this though, Mods are shutting things down when they don't break any rules. I'm sorry, things getting heated in your opinion isn't a rule and shouldn't be. If it's not an outright personal attack, then it doesn't matter if it's phrased in a "rude" manner. I have brought specific examples of moderators breaking the rules themselves or exerting authority in an inappropriate manner before to Rob. I have always run these examples by other members of this forum or moderators on other boards first before bringing it up to make sure it's not just my opinion.

..."But, if I have a person who is making my life difficult, and the lives of the people on this forum difficult, then sometimes, I'm sorry to say, the whole thing would work better if it happened." You combine this with your complaint in cbox about people leaving the board because of the actions of other members and you don't get a positive look at yourself. What it comes off as is people leaving because of other members is bad and the other members should be blamed. People leaving because of moderators though is fine and is the fault of the people leaving, not the moderators.

For the love of god give ME an example of someone leaving because of a moderator. PM it to me. PLEASE. Otherwise, drop it.

Things do not need to get heated. this is a game. A GAME. A GAME. And people are forgetting that.

I have never said that people leaving because of moderators is acceptable aroru, don't make that comparison. I have now said it again.

SHOW ME where it happened. Give me a name of someone that I can talk to. Something.

[Shosuro Aroru]

...I believe I asked the same thing when I was told people were leaving the boards because of me. The response I received was along the lines of I won't give you names so you can go harass people. That was from Rob, not you. However, I don't see why I should submit to the double standard here.

[sprinkles]

A name won't change anything. Even if I did name someone would you just admit you were wrong? Of course not. Our definition of argue must be different because I think we are arguing now but it's being done civilly like it should be. So no big deal there. Basically all I'm saying is why do you feel the need to threaten. If so few players have been banned then obviously it's not such a big deal that a few pms probably can't deal with. But a mass pm campaign and post threatening people sends the wrong message in my opinion and scares people away.

[Shoju]

Since people have a problem with a formalized policy on how to deal with problems. It has been removed. We will continue to operate the way that we have for now. The problem is, that the lack of a formal way to handle things is part of the very problem.

Aroru. I'm not Rob. You say these things, and without some sort of proof, its just conjecture to me. I can't look at something and say: "Yes. Thats a problem that was brought up to me I should look at ways to fix it" when what I have to go on has no details.

This forum isn't a car, and I'm not a mechanic. I can't hook it up to a machine and say "well that's the problem right there!" If it were, it would be a LOT easier.

A name won't change anything. Even if I did name someone would you just admit you were wrong? Of course not. Our definition of argue must be different because I think we are arguing now but it's being done civilly like it should be. So no big deal there. Basically all I'm saying is why do you feel the need to threaten. If so few players have been banned then obviously it's not such a big deal that a few pms probably can't deal with. But a mass pm campaign and post threatening people sends the wrong message in my opinion and scares people away.

Because it provides some measure of "proof" which in the current round of statements, there is none.

Apparently our definitions are different. This, to me, is a disagreement. Calm, civil discussion about dissenting points of view.

The "threat" as you say was a side note to the much bigger points that were being addressed. Maybe now that I've edited the post, people will focus on the rest of what I had to say.

I guess I also have a different definition of the word threat, and threatening.

Laying out the way things will work from here on out in a post so that people clearly understand what would happen is hardly threatening, and I am having a hard time seeing how it could be taken that way.

I didn't say "Sprinkles, Aroru, and Utaku Mai are in danger of being banned." That, is a threat.

"I don't look at outlying rules and consequences as a threat. Sorry to have threatened.

[sprinkles]

I agree I think alot of the issue is how we are defining things. And that is the same way it is in many of the forums. I think this is a great example of how discussion should proceed. We seem to be coming closer to the same conclusion even if we disagree on specifics. I do agree with your point and support it. I just look at the word "ban" as a threat in general. I really didn't like that Senshi threatened it in the post I saw. I'm told that Senshi was being attacked and it's understandable if that is the case. But I really dislike it and don't want to see it abused so I'll be the first to speak up whenever I see it. When it is used it should be clear that it is being used as a last resort. I thank you for your understanding of and all the hard work you and others put into making this run as smooth as possible. Sometimes we will disagree but you have always been reasonable. Thank you.

[Utaku Kasumi]

Oct 10, 2011 10:55:44 GMT -5 Tamori Manji said:

And, remember, if you get angry for ANY reason, Kasumi will always appear out of nowhere with those weird "love is in the air" videos of hers. You don't wanna that

Yes, do remember about that. I can come with something even more terrible than that weird video... I can post all that pink and sparkly stuff here, to make your eyes roll and go blind. Be warned.

But, back to the topic.
I think we all need to cool our heads down. Players and mods equally. I think this is the best picture, to show what I mean.



* Change "youtube" to "board", please.

Also, I just want to remind you:
IF you have any problem (with RP, other player or a mod), first you try to contact your clan mod (which is 2 stars mod). If you can't contact that person, or you have a problem with your own mod... or simply, your clan has no mod - try contacting 3 stars mod, please.
Try leaving 5 stars mods (aka admins) alone... otherwise they'd come and ROAR at you... (also, remember that Setsuro had a little accident and we should let him recover, right?)


Of course, I know we all have moments like that:



But this is the time... we need to stand up, walk a bit from the computer and get something to eat... or go out for a smoke... or go and buy a chocolate (chocolate is always good, it lifts your mood up, really!).
Remember, that if you want people to be fair with you and treat you with a respect... start with yourself. Respect yourself and those around you, while running/joining a RP thread... posting OCC... or using a Cbox here.
Think twice, before you post something that would hurt you if you were that person. It is simple, but makes our life quite easy.