Supporting Hantei OR Kaneka - Why?

[Asahina Yukihime]

OOC

Hi all. ^^
Well, I don't want to start another war but I just can't hold my curiosity any longer. (Asking why people do stuff and why they choose stuff is way too strong in me >.o)

I would like all of you to post here once, and only once if possible, please. As this is not supposed to be an arguing thread. I'm mostly interested in how people, IC and OOC, understand Rokugan's rights. I know some people have different views IC and OOC.

Would you please tell me your IC reazos for supporting <Insert Kaneka or Hantei here>? And your OOC reazos for suporting <Insert Kaneka or Hantei here>?

Then, those wiling to join, please, state what you are, give your IC reasons and OOC reasons and... let's try to keep post objective and one per person, please ^_^ I'll post mine as well.

[Asahina Yukihime]

So, I'm a Hantei supporter and my views are:

OOC:
-I don't like Kaneka, terrible hair style, character antipathy (yet, I can't say Naseru is much better, he is also not among my favorites).
-I really dislike official storyline and would like to stick with Hantei dynasty just because it sounds more traditional.
-Emerald Champion aid was not really needed at MWK, and within the clicking game it's impossible to know what those murder attempts were, and who ordered it, so I won't take it in account for anyone (Hantei or Kaneka).
-And you can add all my IC reasons here as well.

IC:
-Yukihime wouldn't go against her clan will.
-Kaneka keeps self proclaiming him this and that, that's not how she thinks Rokugan is supposed to work.
-Kaneka is just "half Kami blooded", half hinin (she will never talk about this, but she considers it strongly because of her rigid view of the Celestial Order).
-Having Naseru, with Hantei name, on the throne was Rokugani way to end War of Spirits. We made a promise to our ancestors, many of them had to die twice for it. Doing differently is going against ancestors and against Toturi I word to the Steel Chrysanthemum.
-How good can be an Emperor that is ok about breaking his on father words?
-I could not like someone who starts a war
-Hantei didn't made anything (doing nothing is not great, but it's better than doing mistakes/self-proclaming/starting a war)

[Bayushi Hiromitsu]

OOC: I was clicking and taking tokens. Suddenly I got "Hantei Suporter". Ok then, my charater now is a "HANTEI SUPORTAAA" and I'm cool with it. An extra bonus here is that I like to stay away from the main storyline, from the "cannon" legends as far as possible. I believe that will make the game more fun, to not know what's next.

IC: I did not fought the yobanjin. I can't see why Hantei would send assassins if he can ask someone to kill themselves. I don't trust gaijin words. So, if Kaneka was so angry with Hantei, why he did not ask a duel with the emerald champion, or I don't know, try another thing instead of killing half of Rokugan? This war is, in Hiromitsu's way of seeing things, the most evil, coward way to make others fight your battle.

Peace!

[Bayushi Senshi]

ooc: I support Hantei cause I thought it would make for a good plot twist, and because of pressures from members, and I honestly do try to appease as many people as I can.

ic: he feels he can best protect the integrity of the empire by watching from Naseru's "camp."

[Daigotsu Thrakhath]

OOC: I was at mountain watch keep, and I had the option to support Kaneka, and I thought "what the hey."

IC: From Thrakhath's point of view, Kaneka seems to have embraced one of the prime tenets of Shourido: if you are strong enough to take something, then it belongs to you. He sees potential in Kaneka, and is interested to see how things turn out with him on the throne. Obviously Thrak is also interested in watching the Empire make war on itself in as devastating a way as possible.

[Zeure]

OOC: I don't wish to support either. I feel that supporting the Hantei is the only true way for the empire to move forward with Celestial backing, but Naseru is only named Hantei, he is not a Hantei by birth, there is only one in the empire who could claim that.

But I will state that I will probably make my character support one or the other, mostly due to there being more actions that I could perform, thus increasing my tokens, thus increasing my fate.

From Zeure's perspective: Both the candidates that are clamoring for the throne are fools. Only my Lord Daigotsu should have the throne. I will question which one I should publicly support, but my true allegiance will always be with my Lord who accepted me when no other would.

[Utaku Mai]

OOC: to be totally honest, I thought Kaneka was the one with the eyepatch instead of Naseru (I wasn't clear at the time on the difference between EE and canon), and based off of the L5R wiki I thought he seemed like a peaceful and intellectual ruler who overcame a lot under the last Hantei. Thinking that this person was Kaneka, I actually made the decision to support him and then saw (to my relief) that I made the 'right' choice in regards to the rest of the Unicorn clan. I know some people may have been a little upset that the Unicorn didn't get to vote, but honestly, it doesn't bother me. It's Jay's story, and I don't mind a little bit of railroading in order to play what he wants to play.

Outside of my character, I'm liking Kaneka less and less. I think he's being a bit too opportunist and is going about replacing Naseru in exactly the wrong way. The best thing he could have done was get married, have several legitimate offspring, be satisfied with his considerable power as the shogun, and play the waiting game.

Also seriously, there is not a single descendant of the original Hantei left? Absent of a direct line from the last Hantei ruler, couldn't you find someone of the celestial blood among the Otomo or other imperial families? This bit of canon confuses me.

IC: Mai did not fight at MWK but her mother died there and she sees Naseru's inaction as nothing less than criminal. The pandering of the courtiers trying to decide if Kaneka's actions were right or wrong is seen by her as just more proof of a useless emperor who is too distanced from the needs of the empire to be effective in any capacity. She has more doubts about Kaneka than she is willing to let on, but she gave him her oath in recognition for the fact that at least he acted when action was needed.

[The Blue Ronin]

Mai: Although the background isn't always super clear I seem to remember reading in one of the RPG supplements that when a member of the Hantei family attained gempukku they joined one of the other Imperial families and were considered to no longer be related to the Emperor.

So there are presumably lots of relatives of the Hantei line around, in the Seppun, Otomo and Miya families. But their relation is considered to be blood only and thus doesn't count. The only real members of the Hantei family at any given time were the Emperor, his spouse, his children, his mother and any underage siblings.

I can't really see how this system worked without the Imperial line failing, but that's the way it goes and the background material is very clear. So no, there are no other relatives of the Hantei around.

[sprinkles]

(ooc) i knew nothing of these characters. so i asked my clan which way we wanted to go so we could be more united. shoju accidentally supported hantei and so many of us besides thrak went along with him. i still could care less who wins. i just want this to last forever so there are dead samurai everywhere!

(ic) sprinkles feigns support so the spider can continue to pursue official clan status by "supporting" the emperor. confusion is good so it doesn't really matter if we get it or not as long as some remain indifferent or support our war on the wall to help their war against the traitor.

[Shoju]

OOC - Like Sprinkles said, I inadvertently ended up supporting Hantei, and so we quickly and hastily as a clan sprung into action, to get our machinations underway.

IC - Shoju sees Hantei Naseru as the rightful ruler, looking to find pragmatic and peaceful ways to end conflict, unlike his hot headed and temperamental brother.

Shoju has been lamenting his fall from grace, and after gaining control of his heart (he is a khadi) he is trying hard to walk the path he did prior to his fall. Before the Spider ambassadors were voted to be executed, he hoped that by aiding in the defense of the son of heaven, he would be able to win acceptance, and a taste of his former life.

Now, while he still supports the ideals of the Emperor, he is less involved in the war, and working hard to find a way to make a place for the living who were willing to follow him in leaving the Spider. He hopes to find a way to prove his loyalty to the Hantei, in an effort to secure his clans former ancestral lands.

[Utaku Mai]

I get that Ryumon. It makes sense for relatives to abdicate when there is a living Hantei. I would just think that a member of the imperial families would make the most plausible successor in the event that a reigning emperor died without issue. More so than the Toturi dynasty, anyway, who can only at best claim Akodo as an ancestor.

I'd think that, in absence of a member of the actual Hantei family, the best option would be to submit a few of the closest living relatives, most likely nephews or siblings from the Otomo or Seppun or Miya who were trained as backups at one time in their lives, and seek out some kind of sign from the heavens as to which one would be most fit to become the new Hantei. Then, the celestial order is restored, and Rokugan doesn't end up being ruled by mere mortals for four reigns.

[Suzume Satoru]

OOC: I nominally support the sitting Emperor, because Kaneka comes across as a warmongering, power grabbing sort, without any real care in the world, in this setting.

IC:

Satoru would normally support Naseru's claim to the throne because he is the sitting Emperor, and because of the prior arrangements, and because he sees Kaneka as a power hungry, warmonger fool. Also, as someone else mentioned, Kaneka is bringing shame to his ancestors with his actions.

However, Naseru is also failing, in Satoru's mind, to live up to his adoptive name of Hantei. Hantei, if you may recall, was unwilling to strike at his brother Akodo in the tournament to decide the first Emperor, while Naseru seems to completely lack that honorable trait. Even if the assassination attempt on Kaneka was not at Naseru's bidding, the fact that he would drag the whole country into a catastrophic war instead of ceding the throne to spare the people is just as bad as starting the war in Satoru's mind. Kharma visits divine justice on traitors well enough.

[Akodo Taiyo]

(OOC) Neither of them are a good choice. Naseru is too political, treacherous, and indecisive to be trusted, while Kaneka is too power hungry for his own good.

Although, Naseru is currently the rightful emperor, and while he may not have been doing a great job, the job was still his. Kaneka may make a better "war time" emperor, with the Spider and Yobanjin running amok...but after that...where does his lust for power take him? It's too scary to even contemplate.

(IC) Taiyo started out as just a low ranking samurai, and his life belonged to his daimyo. It is his duty to follow his daimyo, and through him his champion where ever they lead. It is not an individual samurai's choice to go against his lord and master. He fought beside the Shogun Kaneka at MWK, and saw in him strength, duty and honor...all marks of a samurai who is fulfilling his role in life. When Kaneka declared himself emperor, he followed his daimyo, champion, and clan in supporting him, because that was his duty as a samurai, and Kaneka had shown his worth on the field of battle. Now that the civil war has progressed a bit, he is seeing more of the big picture, and the damage that is being done by it. Maybe a civil war right now is not such a great idea...but his obligation to his duty compels him to continue in the role that has been assigned to him, whether it lead to victory or death.

[The Blue Ronin]

That's the thing Mai... it seems to me that in the world of Rokugan, those Miya and Otomo and so on are considered no more connected to the Imperial family than any other random Samurai (or perhaps any other Samurai of the Imperial families). The severing of the connection is final and irreversible.

[Toku Hirotomo]

OOC: I frickin want Toturi II so bad I can taste it. I always loved her, and always supported her when playing in the 4 Winds era. I hate both choices, but I'm a Minor Clans member. I thought the Scorpion, Dragon, Lion, and Crab would all be supporting Toturi and not wanting a mudhole stomped in my backside, I went with the flow.

IC: The Hantei has abandoned us. He shows more care for the trappings of leadership, than the actual act of leading. He was willing to let the Unicorn burn before he sent the Emerald Champion, then the backbiting in court caused huge problems. If he were a better man, he would have sent the Shogun immediately, though if he were a better man, we'd not be doing this war.