Bayushi Senshi
Scorpion Clan
Scorpion Clan * Clan Champion * Samurai * Kensai * Experienced * Loyal * Unique
Posts: 1,891
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Post by Bayushi Senshi on Mar 1, 2011 14:20:14 GMT -5
I can agree with that Aroru, I guess it would depend on the delivery. If its a huge clan event, one guy ain't gonna stop you for sure. But if its some small thing, where the one guy could get in the way, I could believe it.
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Kitsuki Yuushahime
Dragon Clan
This person sometimes posts things that are tl;dr
Courtier Magistrate Ambassador Daimyo
Posts: 1,140
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Post by Kitsuki Yuushahime on Mar 1, 2011 14:21:31 GMT -5
...All that sounds good Jay, although your plans for the future seem disconcerting. For the Shogun favor/enemy it makes sense being excluding since there is only one shogun. However, for the clan sworn enemies/allies those should never be exclusive. They're all just random clan members, they don't say your sworn enemy is a daimyo and your ally is a putz. The enemy shouldn't automatically be more powerful than the ally. I have to agree with this - I see the enemies and allies in clans as being roughly equal in power to my own PC or perhaps slightly more powerful but equal with each other. They are just random clan members. It'd be disconcerting if having just 1 crane duelist enemy meant i couldn't do a whole bunch of crane missions if i have a kakita and doji ally and others for instance. Still, I have faith that won't be the case ^^
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Toku Hirotomo
Monkey Clan
Bushi Paragon of Compassion Clan Champion Toturi's Army
Posts: 793
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Post by Toku Hirotomo on Mar 1, 2011 15:26:29 GMT -5
Well, from a character standpoint, I'm glad I can't add in the planning. Kenpachi went to the Zap Branagan School of tactics. "I'll send wave after wave of my men." On the otherside yeah it sucks that because I belived that it was not quite a good idea to act without direct orders, but it was clear that action needed to be done, I pay for acting as devil's advocate. Still, I like the idea. Makes me think of who my enimes are. So far I've only made an enemy of a Crane and a Mantis. The only ones I really care about enimes are the Lion and the Scorpion. It seems odd, but Kenpachi has a close relationship with both clans. Both clans are part of his herritage. I read once that any idiot can go through life without offending anyone. Maybe, if I get challenged to a duel by my Crane enemy, I'll use the tweaked rules for a duel.
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Isawa Kinen
Phoenix Clan
All is equal before the Void.
Posts: 117
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Post by Isawa Kinen on Mar 1, 2011 15:31:26 GMT -5
Zapp Brannigan's Big Book of War Slot: Hand Required: 20 Battle Bonuses: +10 Battle, +10 Courage, -20 Seduction.
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Toku Hirotomo
Monkey Clan
Bushi Paragon of Compassion Clan Champion Toturi's Army
Posts: 793
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Post by Toku Hirotomo on Mar 1, 2011 15:34:41 GMT -5
That is epic. Domo Isawa-sama.
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Kakita Kyoshi
Banned
Crane Clan ? Samurai ? Duelist ? Enlightened ? Hero ? Kenshinzen ? Loyal ? Unique
Posts: 213
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Post by Kakita Kyoshi on Mar 1, 2011 15:40:42 GMT -5
Ok, this is a message directed at Kenshi, and I would appreciate a concise response to this: I shouldn't need to quote you to say that you believe in complete transparency in role-playing games. As a gm myself as well as a player, I believe in the strength of surprise and the absence of metagaming. I cannot believe that by divulging all the information about a game in advance makes the experience any fun for any of the players. Like I said, not everything should be told, there has always a certain amount of guessing, worrying, assuming and so on. But should I plan to give someone a new disadvantage for a certain action, that has to be clear. Because it's an intervention of the GM into the Character, so I tell the player who wants to slander the Shogun at court, that this might come to the ears of him and that he is not a person who takes slander lightly (or ignores what courtiers talk about). The masters of court know normally who much they can do before they get a backslash, it's their job to know such things. So even if the player is not aware what the consequences are possible, his character should know better. And if he than insists on slandering the Shogun, it is a much more interesting story, because the player has chosen what kind of story he things fits for his character. Would you take that as far by saying in game, "If you do that action in combat, enemies a, b, and c will run away?" If players act on this information its called metagaming. Metagaming, in case you are unaware, is when players act upon knowledge that they do not know in character. Transparency breeds metagaming, a cardinal sin in rpgs. I am well aware what meta-gaming is. And I don't see it as a cardinal sin of roleplaying. I would say there are two kinds of meta-gaming. One when you just use the knowledge you have to succeed with your character or even worse to do things against other player characters. But there is a positive side on using meta-gaming. I can use it to make the story more compelling, my character could be of pure chance somewhere another character already is to join him or even help him, because I as a player know he want to play together with the group but has not yet figured out how to meet the rest of the party. On your concrete question, yes it can happen that I tell a player that if he makes 3 raises to behead his opponent, that his followers might run away. I try to give always options what to do and how to do it, this gives the players all the time the feeling that there decisions matter and that it is truly their story they play. Other then that however, wheres the fun in a game if I can't be surprised as a result? Using Yuusha's Mass Effect 2 reference. I had no idea if I or my friends were going to live or die. As a result of my choices I lost 3 members of my party and was on the edge of my seat as I ran from the explosion. I REALLY liked those 3 characters. Do I want to go back and change it so I get what I want? NO. Those happened as a result of my actions, and I loved the game for it. I have not played ME2, but a few other games from BioWare (I wait for their Star Wars MMO at moment). There are things you don't know how they end, but you have most of the time an indicator in which direction it might go, even if they are sometimes pretty vague. You know when you are making someone an enemy, but you don't know what the enemy will do to you in the future. Edge of the seat excitement, let me tell ya. I know you that is. I had for example once a session were my Scorpion player got attacked by a Ninja. He didn't knew who that was, or why that happened. All I told was that he thinks he know the person (recognising the movements), but can't remember who moved in that way. The player decided to kill the opponent, to find out after he looked behind the mask that he just killed his brother. To have this little information that he knows the person, made his decision so much more meaningful and the discovery so much more impacting. Sorry if this seemed long winded, but I felt metagaming should be brought to this discussion. Thank you for your explanation, Jay, I agree on each point 100%. I don't mind that you brought metagaming into this discussion, and even while the forum rules say that metagaming is here strictly forbidden I have rarely any problem with it (maybe I play too much with mature people who understand that the fun part in roleplaying is to play together and have a good time). I use even cut-scene in my game in which I let the players know something their characters don't know, and I see a big problem when they direct there characters into a direction which can lead to interesting scenes. Stories can so much more than just trying to simulate some kind of realism (which is mostly boring). Many game techniques, even for narrative playing, go so much beyond what most people use in the gaming. Don't be afraid to give the players power, it might enrich your gaming experience as GM.
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Post by Hida Setsuro on Mar 1, 2011 16:14:03 GMT -5
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMAAAAAAAA HALT!
All I have to say is that this discussion is getting out of hand. It seems that whenever people bring Metagaming up, it always ends badly.
Metagaming discussion shall cease, it's getting a little out of hand with huge posts and I know someone's going to get angry, other discussion may continue. Carry on.
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Akodo Keisuke
Lion Clan Mod
Lion Clan Regent ?Samurai ?Daimyo ?First Among Generals ?Tactician ?Commander ?Loyal
Posts: 704
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Post by Akodo Keisuke on Mar 1, 2011 16:50:02 GMT -5
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Post by Agasha Miga on Mar 1, 2011 18:34:36 GMT -5
Thanks, Setsuro-sama, for bringing back this discussion in a narrower path.
Thanks to the headstaff for finally implementing this kind of consequence. I applaud, even if I have been blocked myself (Pheonix can't stop themselves to explore, you know...). I think it is a great improvement that will enhance the seriousness player will put in their choices. I have always been told you learn best the hard way. All of those who have been caught in this will think twice about it next time, life goes this way.
A few more comments: 1) Please, in the future, make sure the items required to make political choices are coherent with the game. By the time the Shogun's choice appeared, there were lot more slanders (old item) available than flatteries (new item). This can lead to misunderstand the political context around the course of events. :-)
2) I wonder if this new way of playing will be extended to other interactions with other clans. Choices made with missions can alter the diplomatic meter between some clans and restrain or give access to some privilege action. It may also become useful to retire old "gains" or advantages if future actions are in opposition with the past (e.g. getting taint after getting Kuroiban advisor).
Those are only ideas to extend the concept further, you are doing a tremendous job guys!! Thanks again for the opportunity you give us to help you build something that fun. :-D
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Post by tadakasan on Mar 1, 2011 20:02:52 GMT -5
All I can add is this; yeah, it's kinda a sad-face when I couldn't do the new job. But you know, there are still plenty of things to do out there, and Tadaka wouldn't be against the Shogun scorning him for certain reasons.
In other words, just remember there is always more to do, even for those with more fate than me I'd think. Just depends on your own self inflicted limitations and ambitions. Or in my case lack there of ^_~
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Post by Agasha Miga on Mar 1, 2011 23:22:08 GMT -5
In fact, this situation may prove that Kaneda is really taken by some kind of paranoïa about the potential threats of traitors close to him. This may lead to other strorylines later, who know. ;-)))
On the other hand, I got another idea. It make sense that only a few elite generals gather in the command tent of the Khan to plan the battle, but we know that an army this size will also need a lot of sub-officers (corporals, sergeants, captains, etc.) to lead the troops in battle and achieve specific missions.
Is is possible to have a list of different affectations (jobs), allowed depending on the battle skill? Battle 100 may give access to the headquarters, while a Battle 20 skill may give to lead a small unit in a commando, for example. So, nearly every samurai could get a job in the army (with rewards matching the importance of the job). People may have to choose only one grade and accomplish the job related to this rank. This could start a lot of new interactions.
Still just another suggestion. :-)
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Isawa Kinen
Phoenix Clan
All is equal before the Void.
Posts: 117
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Post by Isawa Kinen on Mar 1, 2011 23:38:30 GMT -5
I think 100 of any skill should be a reasonable max for requirements. 200 is ludicrisly high. (Which is exactly why the Northern Steppes has that requirement. By the way, still no new jobs in that area with this update.) But yeah, scaling it for different levels in samurai would be nice, so this way each samurai can participate, and have it relatively show how much influence they would have.
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Ojii
Dragon Clan
RONIN - Former Dragon Clan Sensei
Posts: 375
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Post by Ojii on Mar 2, 2011 1:12:11 GMT -5
Thanks Setsuro... good word Miga san, i'm 100% with you (the usual diplomate in you )
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Takezo
Dragon Clan
Shugyosha, Loyal retainer of Toturi, Dragon Champion-in-exile
Posts: 415
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Post by Takezo on Mar 2, 2011 15:10:54 GMT -5
Now up to 10 favors with Kaneka (2 from court, and 8 more from War Planning, about half way through Emerald mastery of that job) - so I'm hoping there will be *some* sort of job expending those. Looking interesting *Hoping for a military rank above Chui!*
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Kakita Shinji
Crane Clan
Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone
Posts: 485
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Post by Kakita Shinji on Mar 2, 2011 15:45:17 GMT -5
-.- guess there goes my chance of mastering something that eats those favors.
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