Suzume Satoru
Sparrow Clan
* Sparrow Clan Champion * Suzume Family Daimyo * Warrior Poet *
Posts: 76
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Post by Suzume Satoru on Oct 15, 2011 14:53:25 GMT -5
Do Samurai not have the ability to leave a lord's service whom they do not find worthy of that service? Do the same rules apply to the Emperor? (honest question, actually, as I don't know) But I do know in a Feudal society, breaking from your lord is considered a egregious act of defiance and breaking of oaths (usually, oaths of service and fealty are sworn), and without the backing of an even higher placed lord, it would be rebellion.
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Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
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Post by Asahina Yukihime on Oct 15, 2011 14:53:33 GMT -5
aaaw... I was about to replay but... meh I'll just click the Dragon Eggs
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Akodo Tomatsu
Lion Clan Mod
The Shining Lion
Lion Clan Champion?Samurai?Tactician?Loyal?Paragon of Sincerity?Defender of the Empire
Posts: 1,042
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Post by Akodo Tomatsu on Oct 15, 2011 14:57:14 GMT -5
Yes if a lord does something so dishonorable or asks you to do the same, you are allowed. In the feudal system (Asian not western) there is an unspoken two way street between lord and servant. A servant provides the lord with his service during life, but the lord has a duty to care for his servants and make sure that he is worthy of their service. Like a gift you strive to be worthy of. And there is strong evidence out there that Hantei could be less than worthy, not that the upstart Toturi is any better an appealing option to the non-vested eye. I believe Jay did a good job of making them equally appealing and unappealing. However, and a big HOWEVER, either sides arguments are moot depending which man wins, are they not? And thank you Yukihime, my collection of rares appreciate it.
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Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
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Post by Asahina Yukihime on Oct 15, 2011 15:01:47 GMT -5
What is the evidence within the Clicking game about Hantei being less than worth? There is no clear hint that the assassinations were ordered by him within EE clicking game >.o Or did I missed something? (that was more or less when I started playing, so... >.o may be I lost something...). I could not find any clear evidence withing EE >.o (I know the official story line has some but...we are not at the official setting) (poor Daigotsu, we made his thread go totally out of topic )
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Akodo Tomatsu
Lion Clan Mod
The Shining Lion
Lion Clan Champion?Samurai?Tactician?Loyal?Paragon of Sincerity?Defender of the Empire
Posts: 1,042
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Post by Akodo Tomatsu on Oct 15, 2011 15:11:37 GMT -5
Well remember evidence isn't valued in Rokugan, but we have testimony that leads us to believe he might be involved or someone in his court. And there is more than that, he lost his worth when he failed to act against the Yobanjin, at least in the eyes of the Lion. That is really what I was pointing to.
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Suzume Satoru
Sparrow Clan
* Sparrow Clan Champion * Suzume Family Daimyo * Warrior Poet *
Posts: 76
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Post by Suzume Satoru on Oct 15, 2011 15:19:24 GMT -5
Well remember evidence isn't valued in Rokugan, but we have testimony that leads us to believe he might be involved or someone in his court. And there is more than that, he lost his worth when he failed to act against the Yobanjin, at least in the eyes of the Lion. That is really what I was pointing to. I would like a clarification of this, because searching for an answer myself leads to muddled information. In what way did the Emperor fail to act against the Yobanjin?
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Akodo Tomatsu
Lion Clan Mod
The Shining Lion
Lion Clan Champion?Samurai?Tactician?Loyal?Paragon of Sincerity?Defender of the Empire
Posts: 1,042
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Post by Akodo Tomatsu on Oct 15, 2011 15:22:36 GMT -5
He didn't do anything. Kaneka marched on his own accord to save the Unicorn. But this is the part of the argument that forces me to bow out. While I would love to continue to discuss this with you guys, being a mod I have to keep my opinions to myself so that I can act fairly and impartially in matters of solving disputes. I'm sure there are other honorable samurai that can pick up my cause for me
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Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
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Post by Asahina Yukihime on Oct 15, 2011 15:23:25 GMT -5
I'm not going into a IC discussion here, is more like I'm looking to understand the setting we are living in. What testimony? I mean, there is real stuff written by Jay against the Hantei? I searched old posts, and everything, kaneka self-proclaming himself this and that is clearly there. The assasinations texts I have found (not only on news posts but also on the previous actions) doesn't bring any "hint" that Hantei send them. Of course, characters can think whatever they like. That is not what I'm looking to discuss. Well remember evidence isn't valued in Rokugan, but we have testimony that leads us to believe he might be involved or someone in his court. This is totally a vague possibility. Specially if compared with all the clearly exposed self-proclaiming stuff. But that's ok, some samurais may not mind it and that is not what I was asking anyway. And there is more than that, he lost his worth when he failed to act against the Yobanjin, at least in the eyes of the Lion. That is really what I was pointing to. He failed? Rokugan won the war (much with the efforts of Crane and Dragon) anyway. may be he just knew Imperial forces wasn't necessary to deal with mere gaijin. If I remembered well, also, he gave his blessing for Emerald Champion to march. But the champion didn't (not in time at least), so may be we are blaming the wrong guy. Once again, just replayed because you brought the issue. We don't need to go into a debate for that, I wouldn't like to bore anyone. What I'm really looking for is any clue (IF there is any, cos right now I think thre isn't), inside the clicking game, that correlates Hantei to the assassinations some ppl have accused him. This is something that would make my char major concerned. And as I told, my char helped to prevent some assassinations... so, if I "lost" something I would like to know.
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Suzume Satoru
Sparrow Clan
* Sparrow Clan Champion * Suzume Family Daimyo * Warrior Poet *
Posts: 76
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Post by Suzume Satoru on Oct 15, 2011 15:29:19 GMT -5
My inquiries are strictly OOC, and I understand some things need to be hand waved/fudged in order for the conflict to take place- conflict which adds enjoyment to the game.
That said, I still want to understand things.
So the Emperor did not officially send anyone to stop the invasion, but the Shogun went. Am I mistaken in my understanding that its the Shogun's duties to do what Kaneka did?
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Akodo Tomatsu
Lion Clan Mod
The Shining Lion
Lion Clan Champion?Samurai?Tactician?Loyal?Paragon of Sincerity?Defender of the Empire
Posts: 1,042
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Post by Akodo Tomatsu on Oct 15, 2011 15:39:53 GMT -5
Well I'll say this one last thing.
Yukihime- there is testimony from players (which if we count EE as a world, then we have to accept what they do as well) that says he can be linked or at least it appears he can be linked. While this certainly less than damning, he has done nothing to refute them, and in the courts of Rokugan, you are guilty until proven innocent if I understand this correctly. Now of course he is a son of heaven, so the rules are less than strict when it comes to him, but does it not speak volumes to a man who does not do anything to deny accusations against him when he knows they are false?
Satoru- If the Empire is threatened then should the Emperor not at least make a statement about it and ask the clans to rally to the defense of the Empire? As I recall (And this was at least half a year ago so bear with me if I don't recall all the facts 100% correctly) he went into seclusion and said nothing till after Kaneka was already fighting the Yobanjin. The Shogun is just the commander of the forces of the Emperor in Rokguan, the Emperor still has to give him permission to march, which he didn't do till after the war was well under way. Thats why the Emerald Champion nearly missed the war.
But thats my piece guys, if you want to discuss this more with me, I ask you to PM me. I'm happy to help you understand, but I cannot argue with you on the merits of things OOC, as I need to make sure everyone sees me as the impartial man I strive to be.
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Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
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Post by Asahina Yukihime on Oct 15, 2011 16:16:32 GMT -5
Yukihime- there is testimony from players (which if we count EE as a world, then we have to accept what they do as well) that says he can be linked or at least it appears he can be linked. Hummm... understood. So that's all. Tks
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Oct 15, 2011 16:45:30 GMT -5
I want to recant my support for Hantei and pledge allegiance to Hiromitsu the First, the true Son of Heaven, 'cos "he talked the talk and walked the walk". Does anyone know where do I go for that?
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Akodo Tomatsu
Lion Clan Mod
The Shining Lion
Lion Clan Champion?Samurai?Tactician?Loyal?Paragon of Sincerity?Defender of the Empire
Posts: 1,042
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Post by Akodo Tomatsu on Oct 15, 2011 16:59:21 GMT -5
Yea Maniji, at the Interrokugani House of Hiromitsu, or Ihoh.
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Post by Mirumoto Asano on Oct 15, 2011 17:56:28 GMT -5
Well I'll say this one last thing. Yukihime- there is testimony from players (which if we count EE as a world, then we have to accept what they do as well) that says he can be linked or at least it appears he can be linked. While this certainly less than damning, he has done nothing to refute them, and in the courts of Rokugan, you are guilty until proven innocent if I understand this correctly. So for You he is a suspect because noone roleplayed him to tell that he is innocent?
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Asahina Yukihime
Crane Clan
Crane Clan Ikazuchi
* Air * Water * Shugenja * Artisan * Asahina Family Daimyo *
Posts: 750
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Post by Asahina Yukihime on Oct 15, 2011 18:10:00 GMT -5
I want to recant my support for Hantei and pledge allegiance to Hiromitsu the First, the true Son of Heaven, 'cos "he talked the talk and walked the walk". Does anyone know where do I go for that? Can I do the same? (hey, wait! Am I agreeing with Manji-san again? ) I would do it just for the LOLs
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