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Post by Utaku Kasumi on Oct 16, 2011 14:32:38 GMT -5
Manji if they did... Yoda-Cat would be more green. Don't you think?
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Mirumoto Machu
Dragon Clan
Advantage: Different school Shiba bushi. Dissadvantage: Missing limb
Posts: 299
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Post by Mirumoto Machu on Oct 16, 2011 18:25:57 GMT -5
Who gave ganja to that cat? ;D What dose the sacred river of India have to with a kitten?
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Oct 16, 2011 18:58:16 GMT -5
To look like that, I bet he went for a long, purifying bath in the "sacred river" hehehe
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Agasha Shodai
Phoenix Clan Mod
Phoenix Clan * The Void Master * Tensai * Taisa * Enlightened * Paragon of Compassion * Unique
Posts: 783
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Post by Agasha Shodai on Oct 21, 2011 10:51:28 GMT -5
Maybe it would be equitable to allow people to change, but they pick up a sworn enemy (Kaneka / Hachi) and cannot take a side they have a sworn enemy for. This would prevent abuse.
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Post by Utaku Kasumi on Oct 21, 2011 10:59:37 GMT -5
Haha, Shodai... I already have a sworn enemy: Kaneka... just like many people that are following him. Do you get my point here?
IF something you mentiong happened... Jay would give some bigger restrictions for those that switch sides. And never being able to turn back.
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Agasha Shodai
Phoenix Clan Mod
Phoenix Clan * The Void Master * Tensai * Taisa * Enlightened * Paragon of Compassion * Unique
Posts: 783
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Post by Agasha Shodai on Oct 21, 2011 12:59:14 GMT -5
I fully agree. I mean, how often can people change sides in a war and not have the ones faithful to the side they're betraying not try to kill them?
Answer: none.
And in the case of having the SW, but being a supporter (in the past,) Jay-sama is the Fortune of Coding, but he can't possibly forsee every combination of factors (like how Yukihime caught him flat-footed with the pleas for unity)
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Post by sprinkles on Oct 21, 2011 21:34:40 GMT -5
Shige you said we were all playing samurai and that is just not true. There are many shugenja, monks, and others who are not samurai. Loyalty as shown by Kenada himself isn't always important in a war. Every army ever has used spies and traitors to help them get an edge. There is no reason in character not to be able to switch sides. I agree that it would take more work on Jay's part and may not lead to much difference though.
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Post by Mirumoto Shigekazu on Oct 21, 2011 23:48:32 GMT -5
There are no monks in strict sense - only Togashi monks who are de facto samurai (retiring to a monastery is one of the ways to left mortal world and end the game). Though shugenja and courtiers are not bushi, they are definetly a samurai. Also members of so-called Spider Clan aspire to the name of samurai, so we could treat them as one for purposes of mechanics.
Additionally I cannot see how Kaneka or Naseru could accept swore of loyalty from not-samurai. So mentioning those hemins, hinins, eta and gaijin in terms of sworing loyalty to Emperor himself is disguisitng if not insulting.
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Post by sprinkles on Oct 21, 2011 23:56:02 GMT -5
I guess the terminology from the ccg to the rp is different. None of those I mentioned with the exception of a few Spider are samurai in the ccg.
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Post by Mirumoto Shigekazu on Oct 22, 2011 0:33:22 GMT -5
From 4th Edition L5R Rulebook, p.26:
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Post by sprinkles on Oct 22, 2011 0:36:43 GMT -5
Like I said discrepancy if you've only played the ccg before.
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Post by Mirumoto Shigekazu on Oct 22, 2011 0:54:25 GMT -5
I just used to show my sources when disarrangement comes.
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Zeure
Crane Clan
Crane Clan ? Samurai ? Duelist ? Artisan ? Guardian of Metal ? Unique
Posts: 826
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Post by Zeure on Oct 22, 2011 0:55:29 GMT -5
To address the topic, which is a question of opinion: No. I do not feel that you should be able to switch sides. Not even to join your clan. If we're looking at it from a clicking game perspective, it's an unfair edge in tokens and actions you can perform that others do not have. You made your choice, live with it. If we're looking at it from an IC, "we are samurai living within the clicking game" perspective, you should have been more careful before you swore loyalty to a lord; Samurai do not recount their words, it's part of bushido. And while I get that its just unwise to get involved in debates...I just can't help myself. My very strict interpretation of how a samurai should act according to feudal society and bushido in regards to you have a bad lord is thus: a Samurai is a tool for their lord, however tools can not work unless they are properly maintained, which is where the two way thing comes in; however, any attempt to raise rebellion against your lord is dishonorable. It goes against 3 of the 7 tenets of bushido. The action left to samurai, in the case of a lord that they can no longer serve for whatever reason is seppuku. Period. If you do not choose to follow honor, then that is your bag, but you can't claim honor and follow rebellion in the same action. As far as the emperor having failed, I don't see it. Here are the facts as I understand them from the time when I was not here. 1. Yobanjin attack 2. Naseru doesn't respond as quickly as Kaneka wants 3. Kaneka takes it upon himself to make the emperor's decision for him and marches 4. When the emperor decides it is time, he sends the EM champ 5. War is won If you follow that the emperor is LITERALLY the chosen of heaven to rule the empire you have to accept that he knows what he is doing. Otherwise you can't accept that he is the emperor, in the rokugani son of heaven, way. To question the emperor, again, breaks 3 of the 7 tenets of bushido. Breaking bushido means no honor, means no honor in the action. And Tomatsu, if you wish to debate this with me, please feel free to PM me, I think you've made your feelings clear, but I just can't see them from the honorable perspective that I perceive samurai to be following. Double-side note, someone will probably ask "which tenets does it break?" so I'll just go ahead and knock that one out prior to the question. In my understanding the 7 tenets, in L5R are: COMPASSION, COURAGE, COURTESY, DUTY, HONESTY, HONOR, and SINCERITY. If my understanding of the virtues is correct than by causing an open rebellion, you are breaking sincerity, duty, and honor. And I would include compassion, because in so raising said rebellion you are going to get a lot of people killed that wouldn't have died otherwise. Sincerity is broken as you are going back on your word to serve your lord. Duty is broken because you are not fulfilling your duty to your lord. Honor is broken because you have failed to act in a way that is considered honorable by the code you have sword to follow as a samurai(i.e. bushido).
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Post by Togashi Homsar on Oct 22, 2011 22:37:16 GMT -5
You just got told by a Spider. That definitely deserves an "Oh snap!"
Oh snap!
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Yasuki Chad
Crane Clan
Crab Clan
*Crab Clan Courtier *Experienced *Samurai *Daimyo *Hero *Experienced *Commander
Posts: 476
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Post by Yasuki Chad on Oct 22, 2011 22:45:07 GMT -5
Zeure used Logical reasoning.
It is super effective!
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