Enishi
Dragon Clan
Ninja * shadow * tattooed * Mad prophet of Nothing
Posts: 254
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Post by Enishi on Jun 7, 2012 15:10:28 GMT -5
Forget for a minute about the competitions, just focus on the offing actions. I can off myself right now and add 380 points to my faction. I'm the #3 most honorable person in my whole clan, and still it would only be 380 or so. Now, if I were committed to the cause and happened to have plenty of heavy infantry, I could meet that same 380 force in maybe four days of clicking. Uh... No you couldn't? ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Imagining you're actually using the cheapest action there is (the one that uses light infantry in Fortress of the Forgotten), and you never let your fate refill completely (basically, you're not sleeping), you'd still need 4,75 days to get 380 force. Of course, you'd also need to have thos 380 light infantries (why not) AND 380 jade. If you don't, well, you're back to farming, and you need even more time. More realistically, your 380 force would probably be worth one week of dedicated clicking. Now, I may seem like I'm arguing over details, but it's really worth asking the question: should one sacrifice be worth over a week of another player's concentrated efforts? (I don't really have an answer to that ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) All I'm saying is it's not as trivial as people seem to think it is)
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Jun 7, 2012 15:22:00 GMT -5
Sorry for being unclear Mai, what I meant is that I understand your point and my other arguments were additions to it.
Enishi, I completely agree with you. A sacrifice under normal conditions could be very well worth that much or more because you would be, after all, killing a high level character (like when Moyotoshi sacrificed himself to sway the Scorpion Clan towards the Hantei). But in this case, where everyone will lose their characters, I don't see a point to making sacrifices so valuable, especially because a sacrifice doesn't usually have a "value".
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Kenji
Dragon Clan
Otokodate of the Scarab. Ta?sa
Posts: 80
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Post by Kenji on Jun 7, 2012 16:16:10 GMT -5
Then why don't you sacrifice your character Manji ? If it has no value ? Your sacrifice would made for your loss in the contest and someone else, may be a little less powerful would take your place in that top 10. All in all, you can sacrifice Tamori Manji, it's all the same. Right ? No ?
See where I lead, there ? Yeah. You don't want to loose your guy. And you will cling to it as long as you can.
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Tamori Manji
Dragon Clan Mod ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Demon Fox (妖狐)
?Dragon Clan ?Hatamoto ?Fire ?Void ?Yamabushi ?Tattoed ?Nonhuman
Posts: 922
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Post by Tamori Manji on Jun 7, 2012 16:30:01 GMT -5
I wanted to, especially because it would close his storyline. I've intended to post a short story about him dreaming of an old "acquaintance" from the Burning Sands and thought about "faking" his death to leave Rokugan. But my sacrifice would be meaningless because my Clan needs me and I can contribute more by participating in the Spellcraft competition ( the someone "a little less powerful" you mention is around a thousand points behind me in Spellcraft). Many other players are not constrained by this and can, after they contribute through their normal votes, sacrifice themselves for what they believe. I must note though that I've never said it has no "value", especially because, in this case, it has a "value" and that value is 1 force per 50 honor points (unlike "normal" death actions).
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Shagi the Mad
Crane Clan
Fallen Crane * Scout * Mad * Shadowlands * Experienced 4 Hiruma Shagi
Posts: 180
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Post by Shagi the Mad on Jun 7, 2012 16:32:31 GMT -5
Imagining you're actually using the cheapest action there is (the one that uses light infantry in Fortress of the Forgotten), and you never let your fate refill completely (basically, you're not sleeping), you'd still need 4,75 days to get 380 force. Of course, you'd also need to have thos 380 light infantries (why not) AND 380 jade. If you don't, well, you're back to farming, and you need even more time. More realistically, your 380 force would probably be worth one week of dedicated clicking. Well, I was getting near 100 clicks a day when I was going through my Light Infantry for the Last Stand of the Damned action, so four days is possible. And I didn't need Jade for that. Of course, I started with nearly 900 LI, and I don't normally get more than 5 hours sleep a night, so I'm an exception ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by Hida Joji on Jun 7, 2012 16:54:12 GMT -5
...Yeah, the shadowlands wins because the story writers write them that way. Occasionally they even win because they have a good deck in a balanced ccg environment that's all one on one battles. This is a clicky game, popularity and dedication are the two deciding factors. The "great evil" of the empire should only be a gm thing. You cannot fairly balance it that some players get a great advantage just to try and break even. The idea of players representing the evil that hurts everyone simply doesn't work for this format. The only way it could work is if you had an equal number of players that wanted to be evil, which isn't realistic. If it's not a threat why is it the day of thunder? If it's a threat why the obvious beating? Especially when the beating isn't a direct result of player base but a direct result of contests...
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Enishi
Dragon Clan
Ninja * shadow * tattooed * Mad prophet of Nothing
Posts: 254
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Post by Enishi on Jun 7, 2012 17:00:46 GMT -5
Shagi, you're speaking of a 14-fate action, so yeah, it's technically possible to get 100 clicks in a day... It just takes 23h30. On an 18-fate action, you'd need 30-hour days ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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Post by Isawa Okibi on Jun 7, 2012 17:55:48 GMT -5
It depends. Many people I know, myself among them, raise the attributes only as much as needed to complete the most common jobs and the only other place Meditation is really needed is Reihado Shinsei (I must admit that I went there to master those actions before lvl 100 but I think I am one of the very few who did it so early or who've bothered to go beyond the gold mastery). The missions with high skill requirements are definitely not for everyone, especially the ones that ask for rare skills. I emeralded all of of the RS actions, because it was a challenge and it was in-character. But I doubt I'll have time to more than jade the recently added actions due to time constraints.
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Akodo Keisuke
Lion Clan Mod ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Lion Clan Regent ?Samurai ?Daimyo ?First Among Generals ?Tactician ?Commander ?Loyal
Posts: 704
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Post by Akodo Keisuke on Jun 7, 2012 18:59:26 GMT -5
Here are some more accurate number and include the Charge of the Utaku. The grey out names are those players who are Lion Unicorn and Crab players who do not support Toturi. This means I had to guess at the 11th and 12th places which I did by subtracting 500 point from the 10th player. As you can see even if you got the 30 top players from those clans to all agree to do the deathseeker action they still fall 880 point short of the spellcasters. In effect these are the most accurate numbers I can give you.
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Post by Hida Joji on Jun 7, 2012 19:01:50 GMT -5
... Where Spellcraft is stronger than steel ...
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Post by Asahina Yuuto on Jun 7, 2012 19:46:36 GMT -5
... Where Spellcraft is stronger than steel ... ?
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Post by Togashi Homsar on Jun 7, 2012 23:42:57 GMT -5
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
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Post by Hida Joji on Jun 8, 2012 5:17:58 GMT -5
... Where Spellcraft is stronger than steel ... ? Legend of the five rings - where honor is stronger than steel It's the original "motto" of L5R, I believe
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Utaku Mai
Unicorn Clan
*Battle Maiden* *Paragon of Honor* *Goddamn Rockstar*
Posts: 484
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Post by Utaku Mai on Jun 8, 2012 9:59:24 GMT -5
Imagining you're actually using the cheapest action there is (the one that uses light infantry in Fortress of the Forgotten), and you never let your fate refill completely (basically, you're not sleeping), you'd still need 4,75 days to get 380 force. Of course, you'd also need to have thos 380 light infantries (why not) AND 380 jade. If you don't, well, you're back to farming, and you need even more time. More realistically, your 380 force would probably be worth one week of dedicated clicking. Well, I was getting near 100 clicks a day when I was going through my Light Infantry for the Last Stand of the Damned action, so four days is possible. And I didn't need Jade for that. Of course, I started with nearly 900 LI, and I don't normally get more than 5 hours sleep a night, so I'm an exception ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) If someone with the exact honor score as mine offed themselves the moment the action was offered (which was a few days ago), I'd easily surpass the force bump through sheer clicks by the time the game ended early next week. And I have a fairly high honor score. The majority of the game comprise of honor scores that would take even less time to overtake in clicking compared to the blow up action. That's all I'm saying. I'm not actually recommending that the action change, I think under any normal circumstances, 1 force per 50 honor would be a great boon to one side. Waiting as long as possible to get your clicks in before adding that last honor bump is simply a wise course of action, to give you more of a chance to play with whatever skill points and stocked items you can. Unfortunately, we are simply in a broken environment right now in regards to Spellcraft, and it just won't make any difference. It makes me a bit sad. Currently the spellcraft competitions are just one big spoiler for the endgame. It would have been nice to see a bit more uncertainty.
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Bayushi Senshi
Scorpion Clan
Scorpion Clan * Clan Champion * Samurai * Kensai * Experienced * Loyal * Unique
Posts: 1,891
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Post by Bayushi Senshi on Jun 8, 2012 14:43:45 GMT -5
/me is happy just to be in a kenjutsu competition for once. *sigh*
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